moonay
Vital Football Legend
The Johnson disease has well and truly kicked in ... you're making up your own "truth" and reality now!
Not sure if you've got me on "ignore" or what Hampton, but maybe you missed this on the previous page .....
Lockdown 4 - Potential effect on Latics
- Thread starter C_Latic
- Start date
Not sure if you've got me on "ignore" or what Hampton, but maybe you missed this on the previous page .....
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
No problem with you playing DA mate, however my referring to the population density was linked to the number of infections, not vaccinations.
If you live in Portugal, were I have a number of acquaintances, you are less likely to become infected as there are so many rural locations with plenty of space between people.
Much like Scotland and Wales in our case were infections are lower. Whereas, in England we have more major conurbations which are breeding grounds for respiratory disease due to the fact that people are living in close proximity to each other. Portugal has fewer large towns and cities.
As far as the vaccination roll out in Portugal, it was a lot slower than ours and, true, they have vaccinated a larger percentage of their small population, but lagged behind us on timescale. They may have had less people delivering the jabs, but they were also far less organised than here in the UK. and that was the point I was making.
Posters on here were making the point that the vaccine roll out in the UK was badly handled by the government and yet they have managed to get 128 million doses administered faster than smaller countries with far fewer doses to administer.
My friends in Portugal told me that there were major delays in their roll out and it was very poorly organised.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
To be absolutely fair TB, I don't think they were .......certainly I wasn't. All I was saying is that the PM keeps harping on about how we're miles ahead of everyone else (in the EU), when clearly, we're not.
Whether or not the government have handled the rest of pandemic planning badly is another issue entirely.
TRUE BELIEVER
Vital Football Hero
You see I mustn't be seeing the same press conferences as you mate because all I hear is him praising the NHS and the other agencies involved for the way it has been handled and saying that the efficient way it has been rolled out is world leading. Which in my humble opinion it is.
I don't see him "harping" on about how we're miles ahead, I simply see a PM proud of the work the country's health system has performed.
What I do see is the media and others producing charts and figures that tell the story they want to, as both you and I have done in previous posts. It simply depends on what criteria you want to put forward. Percentage of the population, speed of roll out, doses administered, etc.
For instance, in my mind there is no doubt that we led the world in speed of roll out and were the first country to administer a dose out of trials ( Margaret Keenan) and continued in that role until well into the year. However as we got to the latter stages of the roll out and encountered resistance from anti vaxxers other countries caught up. At one stage we were "miles ahead" of other countries and I wonder if that is what is being alluded to.
Once again we are well ahead of other countries in the roll out of the booster jabs, however as we get to the end of the roll out I have no doubt that we will be caught up again.
If you are able to take politics and the dislike of BJ out of the equation I am sure you too will be able to find many positives in the vaccine programme in this country and might agree that in some criteria we have been "world leading".
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Again TB, I've made no criticism of the way the vaccination programme has been handled. It's certainly world "equalling" (as shown by the comparative figures with other countries), though surely, we'd expect it to be.
He's harped on about us being ahead of the EU loads of times........ I give you a recent example below ...... start on about booster rollout, but then just makes stuff up (as proven by the figures I've shown.
9 mins 20 secs
Also in that clip, at 15.15, he goes on about how he went ahead of Europe ....... yet we still have the highest deaths, so what good did it really do us? Our deaths are way above those of France and Germany.
By the way, I've just realised that those "Our World in Data" figure that I've shown is the same source as used by Chris Witty and the PM for their charts in their briefings.
Being the first to do stuff is great, but it's also meaningless. The story of the tortoise and the hare is a great one to remember. Just look at our deaths compared to other leading EU countries. We're no shining light in the way we've handled this pandemic, that's for sure.
I take on board your point re my dislike of the PM, but I would argue that I've also given praise when it's been due - and certainly on the subject of the vaccination rollout. . However, I can't say that I've seen criticism offered by the PM's supporters (on here and elsewhere) when things don't go quite so well for him.
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Actually I'm not - gvt chart below
I haven't seen that chart before, but I'd argue that it offers a misleading - or at best, only partial - view, given that it's talking actual numbers rather than %s of those specific groups. It's simply logical.
You initially started challenging the efficacy of masks, and now, (maybe cos you were determined to die on the hill you'd climbed) you seem to be challenging the same re vaccinations. That just doesn't make sense.
Anyway, I can see I'm not going to change your mind, and you certainly aren't going to change mine, so I'll leave it there.
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
I'm certain you won't ....!
Chart supplied to demonstrate you can spin it any way you choose.
BTW confirmed by ONS that 57% of hospitalisations are fully vaxed and being triple jabbed makes you 4x more likely to catch omicron than those not jabbed
And let's have it reet you know very well that the hill I walked up was around freedom of choice !
Masks and jabs being 2 examples of choice in a democracy
57% of 8000 out of a pool of 50m = 0.0000912
versus
43% of 8000 out of a pool of 10m. = 0.000344 (3.77 times greater)
Your stats.....
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
On a percentage agreed - thing is the claim was more unvaxxed people (not a percentage of people) were in hospital the claim was incorrect !
moonay
Vital Football Legend
???My certainty was 8n fact correct
Ah, I presume you mean that I'd respond to your post .......only to query summat you posted without source ...........oh, and to put you right on what you're actually doing (ie NOT just supporting freedom of choice).
Shite on t' telly.
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
moonay
Vital Football Legend
Sorry mate, but I presume the chart is from a source supposedly quoting ONS data (not directly from the ONS) but I can't find that chart itself on ONS. However, typing in the link direct, it merely offers text and a dataset (against a sample size of 1,816) ......... which has the following caveat:
· Vaccination status: Those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant.
Lies, damned lies and stats eh?
Edit:
Here's the kink by the way:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...patibleresultinthosewhotestpositiveforcovid19
· Vaccination status: Those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant.
Lies, damned lies and stats eh?
Edit:
Here's the kink by the way:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...patibleresultinthosewhotestpositiveforcovid19
Last edited:
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
You (and others on here) I'm sure will eventually acknowledge that the position I'm advocating has merit as the science then the gvt backs off the Omnicron doomsday scenarios that have been propoganda peddled these past few weeks.
I sincerely hope this happens before the clock strikes 13 for all of us !
I sincerely hope this happens before the clock strikes 13 for all of us !
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
It's from the ONS but thanks for the link !Sorry mate, but I presume the chart is from a source supposedly quoting ONS data (not directly from the ONS) but I can't find that chart itself on ONS. However, typing in the link direct, it merely offers text and a dataset (against a sample size of 1,816) ......... which has the following caveat:
· Vaccination status: Those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant.
Lies, damned lies and stats eh?
Edit:
Here's the kink by the way:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...patibleresultinthosewhotestpositiveforcovid19
Time for the gvt and the naysayers to come clean and eat some humble for yet again terrifying the wider population and bouncing them into ineffective boosters
Hampton
Vital Football Hero
You keep denying the truth for a bit longer - even Jenny Harris is now backing off from her "NHS disaster" statementSorry mate, but I presume the chart is from a source supposedly quoting ONS data (not directly from the ONS) but I can't find that chart itself on ONS. However, typing in the link direct, it merely offers text and a dataset (against a sample size of 1,816) ......... which has the following caveat:
· Vaccination status: Those who have received three doses of a vaccine and test positive for COVID-19 are more likely to be infected with infections compatible with the Omicron variant compared with those who are unvaccinated, though individuals who had received at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccine continued to be less likely to test positive for COVID-19, regardless of variant. It is too early to draw conclusions from our data on the effectiveness of vaccines against the Omicron variant.
Lies, damned lies and stats eh?
Edit:
Here's the kink by the way:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...patibleresultinthosewhotestpositiveforcovid19
.Looks like "The great omnicron / vaccination swindle" is being exposed - now if only there was a punk band around they could use that as an album title
