Lisa Nandy article

Made in Wigan said:
You speak as they are doing so deliberately. As far as I’m aware this is not the case, they are collateral casualties, for want of a better phrase. Don’t believe everything Hamas tells the BBC. Or anything for that matter. Even the GHF say these latest reports are total bullshit.
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No words. None.
 
moonay said:
No words. None.
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Until recently I never took you for one of the gullible. Shows how wrong one can be.

However feel free to furnish us all with this indisputable, independent evidence that it is IDF policy/strategy to arbitrarily kill civilians who are queuing for food.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Until recently I never took you for one of the gullible. Shows how wrong one can be.

However feel free to furnish us all with this indisputable, independent evidence that it is IDF policy/strategy to arbitrarily kill civilians who are queuing for food.
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Policy? Who knows? Are they doing it? Very clearly, as evidenced time and time again by very experienced journalists who absolutely wouldn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

What's happening is beyond tragedy. Worse ... it's now undoubtedly criminal.
 
moonay said:
Policy? Who knows? Are they doing it? Very clearly, as evidenced time and time again by very experienced journalists who absolutely wouldn't have the wool pulled over their eyes.

What's happening is beyond tragedy. Worse ... it's now undoubtedly criminal.
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You stated you thought I found it ‘acceptable for a state's army to kill (even slaughter) non-combatants.’

To me that suggests you believe their actions are deliberate, particularly as you think it’s ’undoubtedly criminal’ so therefore with intent/malice, so please provide me with evidence that this is the case or government policy. The IDF aren’t operating with free rein, but I’m not naive enough to think civilian deaths aren’t a consequence or a cost of war, particularly in such a dense area of operations and when one side is dressing as per the local population. Civilians have been killed inadvertently, undoubtedly, but there is an ongoing war and war is imperfect, but that doesn’t mean the IDF have deliberately targeted them and thought hey let’s go slaughter a load of folk queuing for today. I recall 19 died in a crush in a queue at one point, are they to be blamed for that also?

Let’s not forget why the IDF are there in the first place. I repeat what I said yesterday and previously - if Hamas release all those they kidnapped I’m a certain ceasefire will follow and these civilians will be a lot safer not living in the middle of a war zone.
 
Made in Wigan said:
You stated you thought I found it ‘acceptable for a state's army to kill (even slaughter) non-combatants.’

To me that suggests you believe their actions are deliberate, particularly as you think it’s ’undoubtedly criminal’ so therefore with intent/malice, so please provide me with evidence that this is the case or government policy. The IDF aren’t operating with free rein, but I’m not naive enough to think civilian deaths aren’t a consequence or a cost of war, particularly in such a dense area of operations and when one side is dressing as per the local population. Civilians have been killed inadvertently, undoubtedly, but there is an ongoing war and war is imperfect, but that doesn’t mean the IDF have deliberately targeted them and thought hey let’s go slaughter a load of folk queuing for today. I recall 19 died in a crush in a queue at one point, are they to be blamed for that also?

Let’s not forget why the IDF are there in the first place. I repeat what I said yesterday and previously - if Hamas release all those they kidnapped I’m a certain ceasefire will follow and these civilians will be a lot safer not living in the middle of a war zone.
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I do think it's deliberate. It's happened too many times for it not to be. Is it official "policy"? How could I know? However, it's certainly not been stopped by the Israeli government ... so by inference, they're guilty of collusion (or maybe complicity) at the very least. Evidence? Has it stopped?

As for it being a war, normally, a war is two sides fighting against each other. Accepting that the actions of Hamas that started this whole episode were abhorrent and deserved to be condemned, we hear little of Hamas fighting back against Israel these days.

I agree Hamas should release the hostages. The fact that they haven't in NO WAY justifies the actions of the IDF nor the inactions of the Israeli government to let them do so.
 
moonay said:
I do think it's deliberate. It's happened too many times for it not to be. Is it official "policy"? How could I know? However, it's certainly not been stopped by the Israeli government ... so by inference, they're guilty of collusion (or maybe complicity) at the very least. Evidence? Has it stopped?

As for it being a war, normally, a war is two sides fighting against each other. Accepting that the actions of Hamas that started this whole episode were abhorrent and deserved to be condemned, we hear little of Hamas fighting back against Israel these days.

I agree Hamas should release the hostages. The fact that they haven't in NO WAY justifies the actions of the IDF nor the inactions of the Israeli government to let them do so.
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Getting aid in to reach the right people and distribute it safely is complex, and is extremely risky for the IDF to facilitate. The IDF fire warning shots on suspects approaching them, they fire to disperse, to keep people away, in order to keep order and minimise risk to themselves. Who are combatants, who are civilians? Under stress and personal risk mistakes happen because these people are human not robots. Sometimes fire is inaccurate, it isn’t an exact science. Tragic mistakes happen. That doesn’t mean they are targeting civilians to kill them or that their actions are deliberate. Given the lengthy chain of command any order to indiscriminately kill civilians in a food queue would be questioned and certain to failure. That’s why it isn’t deliberate.
 
Made in Wigan said:
Getting aid in to reach the right people and distribute it safely is complex, and is extremely risky for the IDF to facilitate. The IDF fire warning shots on suspects approaching them, they fire to disperse, to keep people away, in order to keep order and minimise risk to themselves. Who are combatants, who are civilians? Under stress and personal risk mistakes happen because these people are human not robots. Sometimes fire is inaccurate, it isn’t an exact science. Tragic mistakes happen. That doesn’t mean they are targeting civilians to kill them or that their actions are deliberate. Given the lengthy chain of command any order to indiscriminately kill civilians in a food queue would be questioned and certain to failure. That’s why it isn’t deliberate.
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Again, ... no words. None would suffice.
 
Made in Wigan said:
You stated you thought I found it ‘acceptable for a state's army to kill (even slaughter) non-combatants.’

To me that suggests you believe their actions are deliberate, particularly as you think it’s ’undoubtedly criminal’ so therefore with intent/malice, so please provide me with evidence that this is the case or government policy. The IDF aren’t operating with free rein, but I’m not naive enough to think civilian deaths aren’t a consequence or a cost of war, particularly in such a dense area of operations and when one side is dressing as per the local population. Civilians have been killed inadvertently, undoubtedly, but there is an ongoing war and war is imperfect, but that doesn’t mean the IDF have deliberately targeted them and thought hey let’s go slaughter a load of folk queuing for today. I recall 19 died in a crush in a queue at one point, are they to be blamed for that also?

Let’s not forget why the IDF are there in the first place. I repeat what I said yesterday and previously - if Hamas release all those they kidnapped I’m a certain ceasefire will follow and these civilians will be a lot safer not living in the middle of a war zone.
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www.genocidewatch.com

The IDF is murdering civilians seeking food in Gaza

Genocide EmergencyThe Israel Defense Force Is Murdering Civilians Seeking Food in GazaJuly 1, 2025, republished June 2, 2026 Since 27 May 2025, the Israel Defense Force has killed over 410 Palestinians who were seeking food at distribution sites organized by Israel and the USA. These were not...
www.genocidewatch.com www.genocidewatch.com
 
R Blackid said:
www.genocidewatch.com

The IDF is murdering civilians seeking food in Gaza

Genocide EmergencyThe Israel Defense Force Is Murdering Civilians Seeking Food in GazaJuly 1, 2025, republished June 2, 2026 Since 27 May 2025, the Israel Defense Force has killed over 410 Palestinians who were seeking food at distribution sites organized by Israel and the USA. These were not...
www.genocidewatch.com www.genocidewatch.com
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Genocide watch. 😂😂😂

Get a grip of yourself man/woman.
 
Made in Wigan said:
You said no words previously, and then followed it up with a tirade of bull shit. Countering legitimate viewpoints is beyond you. If the evidence isn’t there, it isn’t there.
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At times, you really don't help yourself. You may think you're simply defending your argument, but you're just coming across as a tw@t. I'm not saying that you are one ... just that you're coming across like one.

Whereas I have taken on board your point re the hostage release, as always, you refuse to take on board any points from anyone else. It's always the same, and is largely the reason why I initially chose not to get involved in this thread.

I'll now try harder.
 
Before I try harder, how about I leave you with these. No doubt you'll cast doubt on their veracity, but I suppose that's your prerogative.

www.bbc.co.uk

Jeremy Bowen: Israel's allies see evidence of war crimes in Gaza mounting up

The Middle East has been transformed since 7 October, and almost two years on, the conflict in Gaza is at another inflection point.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

www.bbc.co.uk

WHO condemns Israeli attacks on facilities in central Gaza

The UN agency accuses Israeli forces of attacking a building housing its staff and their families in Deir al-Balah.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
moonay said:
At times, you really don't help yourself. You may think you're simply defending your argument, but you're just coming across as a tw@t. I'm not saying that you are one ... just that you're coming across like one.

Whereas I have taken on board your point re the hostage release, as always, you refuse to take on board any points from anyone else. It's always the same, and is largely the reason why I initially chose not to get involved in this thread.

I'll now try harder.
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The hypocrisy on this board never ceases to amaze me.

You have made no points to take on board and contributed nothing of relevance to the varied topics discussed over the last 5 days or so. If you’re looking to get your ego massaged by posting some shite on Gaza, without any proof or evidence to back up these claims about the Israeli state deliberately killing civilians in food queues then you are looking toward the wrong person.

As for the supposed evidence in post 335 - they are bbc articles. This corporation has proven time and time and time again they can no longer be relied upon to accurately report upon these events given their bias and anti semitism that runs through it.
 
moonay said:
I rest my case M' Lud. The World F*cking Health Organisation !

:slap:

:arrghh:
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Indeed. And not one mention from them of Israel deliberately killing civilians in food queues. If you’re resting on that, I can see why you never pursued a career in the legal profession.
 
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