Lest we forget ... the 11th of September .. | Page 2 | Vital Football

Lest we forget ... the 11th of September ..

…....apart from yesterdays point gained at Burton & the tragic event of twenty years ago...

we should remember how the US in A effected regime change in Chile, on the 11th September 1973, in their usual manner, "helping" a coup d'etat which removed the elected President Allende, & his socialist coalition government, & "gifting" the country with the 17 year dictatorship of Pinochet …...

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/allende-dies-in-coup

Hey Gilles, good post!

Really feeling less and less inclined to engage in political debate on here these days. It seems the board has become more right-wing than ever in recent times and tbh I have lots of far more interesting things to do with my time then depress myself by reading and responding to their bile.

The only reason I've decided to post here on this thread is to recommend to you and other anti-fascists on here know (if you've not seen it before) about a really decent and heart-warming documentary that I saw a little while ago.

It's called, 'Nae Pasaran!', and it tells the story of, "an extraordinary act of international solidarity by Scottish factory workers that managed to ground several Chilean Air Force jets during General Augusto Pinochet’s dictatorship in the 1970s".

Check it out, I reckon you'll enjoy it.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4489624/

https://www.equaltimes.org/a-new-documentary-celebrates-the
 
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Really feeling less and less inclined to engage in political debate on here these days. It seems the board has become more right-wing than ever in recent times and tbh I have lots of far more interesting things to do with my time then depress myself by reading and responding to their bile.

The changing world of politics Bud , corresponding to the challenges we all face in the near future.
 
I take Gilles original point about the same date, and whatabouterry is not always inappropriate. I have my own views on the 9-11 wallowing, especially over here where it is being used to contrast a united past with a divided present from right, left and centre. However, I’d respectfully suggest that the former in its one-day horror is worth marking out and letting stand alone. The coup and 9-11 both had bad to terrible knock on effects, but this invariably gets us into the political wrangling which we can and do engage in any old day of the week.

I don’t think the board is becoming more right wing. The usual suspects say the usual things across the spectrum and we’re all tempted to label those who disagree with us as a something or other. I’m pretty impressed by how even when we get steamed and ratty, we all get back to talking to each other pretty quickly.
 
I don’t think the board is becoming more right wing. The usual suspects say the usual things across the spectrum and we’re all tempted to label those who disagree with us as a something or other. I’m pretty impressed by how even when we get steamed and ratty, we all get back to talking to each other pretty quickly.

I agree that with you about, "the usual suspects saying the usual things", but I've sensed that in recent months it's not been just the usual suspects. There seems to be a few new additions to the board (or at least, if not newly joined, then posting more often recently) who are expressing right-wing opinions.

Not only that but, as far as I'm concerned, the "usual suspects" on the right have been more vocal lately. Perhaps because they have been emboldened by the fact that this country has a right-wing government and that there currently seems to be little opposition to it?

I don't know why, but whatever the reason it does seem to me that the balance on here has tilted to the right. It's by no means an echo chamber, and you're spot on about us all getting back to talking to each other soon enough (but that's cos we're all Gills, ain't it?!). So the place is far from dead to me. I ain't leaving. Not yet, anyway!

I just wish that more people would speak out against the racism and hatred. I feel certain in my heart that there are lots of posters on here who don't like it but who don't speak out against it because they simply don't want to get involved.

It's a bit like what I was talking to you the other day about. I feel sure you're an anti-racist but you won't come out and say so. Why not?! Instead you tell us that your family is mixed race! Well then, you should know about racism. You should be an anti-racist and you shouldn't be ashamed to say you are.
 
It may be a conceit, but I do not like being asked to confirm, affirm, or declare anything about me or my thoughts. It rankles and feels like a test or request to conform. It pushes me in the opposite direction. I say what I say and let others judge.

From the point of view of keeping an eye on the prize, I value speaking out less than you do.
 
It may be a conceit, but I do not like being asked to confirm, affirm, or declare anything about me or my thoughts. It rankles and feels like a test or request to conform. It pushes me in the opposite direction. I say what I say and let others judge.

From the point of view of keeping an eye on the prize, I value speaking out less than you do.

Nobody's testing you! Or expecting you to conform, least of all me!

But I do think that good people should speak out and stand up against racism, intolerance and hatred. Otherwise the dark side will win.

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

"Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

"Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

"Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
 
I take Gilles original point about the same date, and whatabouterry is not always inappropriate. I have my own views on the 9-11 wallowing, especially over here where it is being used to contrast a united past with a divided present from right, left and centre. However, I’d respectfully suggest that the former in its one-day horror is worth marking out and letting stand alone.

You may not be aware but on the weekend the annual NYPD v FDNY hockey game was shown live here (on BT Sport). Always a popular event on the NY calendar but obviously more poignant over the last 20 years. I`ve watched part (just P1 so far) of the well attended game (at MSG) and never cease to be amazed by the city and community`s positive attitude and support toward the brave men and women of the FDNY & NYPD who entered those two towers with an eerie and scary mindset of what they were walking into as everyone else was going the opposite way. The looks in the eyes of some of those guys on their way into the building, captured by a TV crew, is an enduring memory for so many people.

Of course, all bets are off on the ice and it may seem a stretch of the imagination to some that these guys have a deep respect for one another off the ice - which they do, of course. Respect to them all.
 
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My wife's mixed race , but you still like to lable me as a racist.

I don't think you're racist in the sense that you think I think you're racist. Indeed, I think that you're probably more open-minded than a lot of racists. If you weren't, it would be unlikely that you'd have married a mixed-race woman.

As you well know, the reason that I think you're racist is because of your Islamophobia. I know that you'll retort that Islam is a religion not a race but that doesn't mean you're not being racist when you express the views you hold about Muslims. If you were to just criticise the religion I'd probably largely agree with you, but you go further than that and dismiss all Muslims as terrorists or rapists! You always fail to acknowledge that the overwhelming majority of Muslim people are good, decent human beings.

Anyway, as I said to jokerman when he told us that his family is mixed race, I'll say the same to you: so what?

Jokerman may tell us he doesn't like to, "confirm, affirm, or declare anything about [himself] or [his] thoughts", but over the years he's let enough slip to make me believe he is an anti-racist. In a simar vein, you've posted plenty that has made me, and lots of others, dismiss you as a nasty racist.

That's enough for now, you'll notice more and more that you and 3x6 (and a couple of others) will be pissing in the wind when it comes to trying to rile me into engaging with you. If you want to claim some kind of victory you can, well done!
 
I agree that with you about, "the usual suspects saying the usual things", but I've sensed that in recent months it's not been just the usual suspects. There seems to be a few new additions to the board (or at least, if not newly joined, then posting more often recently) who are expressing right-wing opinions.

Not only that but, as far as I'm concerned, the "usual suspects" on the right have been more vocal lately. Perhaps because they have been emboldened by the fact that this country has a right-wing government and that there currently seems to be little opposition to it?

I don't know why, but whatever the reason it does seem to me that the balance on here has tilted to the right. It's by no means an echo chamber, and you're spot on about us all getting back to talking to each other soon enough (but that's cos we're all Gills, ain't it?!). So the place is far from dead to me. I ain't leaving. Not yet, anyway!

I just wish that more people would speak out against the racism and hatred. I feel certain in my heart that there are lots of posters on here who don't like it but who don't speak out against it because they simply don't want to get involved.

It's a bit like what I was talking to you the other day about. I feel sure you're an anti-racist but you won't come out and say so. Why not?! Instead you tell us that your family is mixed race! Well then, you should know about racism. You should be an anti-racist and you shouldn't be ashamed to say you are.

I am anti racist and that includes against white people so I cannot just side with everything that the left wing or right wing fascists dictate.

United we stand.
 
Really feeling less and less inclined to engage in political debate on here these days. It seems the board has become more right-wing than ever in recent times and tbh I have lots of far more interesting things to do with my time then depress myself by reading and responding to their bile./QUOTE]
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Just finished watching the new six part National Geographic documentary "9/11 One Day In America" - an accurate and absorbing chronology of that dreadful day.

I would highly recommend this documentary - leaving aside any other issues, the cleverly assembled direct dialogue and connected direct filming from the destruction sites creates an amazingly authentic record and a video product that will provide a truly vivid piece of history for future students.

The fact that so many lost lives were of those trying to save lives makes it all the more poignant.

Many documentaries have been made about 9/11, but, IMO, this one is head and shoulders above in terms of realness, heart-rending and exactitude.
 
It may be a conceit, but I do not like being asked to confirm, affirm, or declare anything about me or my thoughts. It rankles and feels like a test or request to conform. It pushes me in the opposite direction. I say what I say and let others judge.

From the point of view of keeping an eye on the prize, I value speaking out less than you do.
Spot on JM, I object to being told "what I am". Buddha said on another thread "Failing to adopt a position of anti-racism and speak out against racists has now become (where it wasn't before) a signal that you're really a racist."
I live my life to certain standards, one of them being non racist. Just because I don't post lengthy, self serving posts about it, doesn't make me a racist.
 

Yes, but who are the caterpillars and who are the butterflies, and who gets to say? And, of course. while we all "other," we should feel bad about it as we do it.