Lest we forget ... the 11th of September .. | Vital Football

Lest we forget ... the 11th of September ..

Gilles Lingam

Gilles Lingam

Vital Squad Member
…....apart from yesterdays point gained at Burton & the tragic event of twenty years ago...

we should remember how the US in A effected regime change in Chile, on the 11th September 1973, in their usual manner, "helping" a coup d'etat which removed the elected President Allende, & his socialist coalition government, & "gifting" the country with the 17 year dictatorship of Pinochet …...

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/allende-dies-in-coup
 
valenciagill said:
Did you read the article Comrade Gilles linked to ?
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dont need to. I was around at the time and followed all of it. I saw film smuggled out of Chilli including the bombing of the palace and the cia/military coup discussions and actions.
At the time the us used the monroe doctrine to back, fund, arm and impose dictatorial puppets to control south American countries.

have also studied it ever since. There is a big difference between soviet style communist regimes and social democratic governments.
governments voted in by their own people should surely not be destabilised unless they are actually doing you damage.

dont believe the hype lol.
 
PhilK66 said:
Venezuela is the role model for extreme socialist regimes 😂
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Hugo Chávez was democratically elected (by huge margins) five times. Chávez was so successful because he more than doubled spending on health and education. & taking back state control over the oil . The policies carried out by Chávez led to vast improvements in access to health care, education, housing, and pensions. Poverty in Venezuela was drastically reduced. By 2012 Venezuela was the most equitable country in Latin America.

The US has a long history of destabilising democratically elected governments in Latin America and in Venezuela it has sought to weaken the elected governments of both Maduro and Chavez, thru ' sanctions, distributing funds to opposition groups,& simple propaganda.
For over 20 years it had been US policy to seek regime change. Trump’s recognition of opposition leader Guaido (who has been trained for years in the US for the role) was the most obvious effort to undermine the government.
 
H
Gilles Lingam said:
Hugo Chávez was democratically elected (by huge margins) five times. Chávez was so successful because he more than doubled spending on health and education. & taking back state control over the oil . The policies carried out by Chávez led to vast improvements in access to health care, education, housing, and pensions. Poverty in Venezuela was drastically reduced. By 2012 Venezuela was the most equitable country in Latin America.

The US has a long history of destabilising democratically elected governments in Latin America and in Venezuela it has sought to weaken the elected governments of both Maduro and Chavez, thru ' sanctions, distributing funds to opposition groups,& simple propaganda.
For over 20 years it had been US policy to seek regime change. Trump’s recognition of opposition leader Guaido (who has been trained for years in the US for the role) was the most obvious effort to undermine the government.
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Inconveniently, he launched a failed coup first, did he not?

Allende was an example of the now common trend to pursue all out policies rather than compromise when you’ve barely won a democratic mandate in a badly divided country.

The Chicago boys put Chile on a much firmer footing than Allende would have ever managed. I don’t think that justifies the murder and mayhem used to clear the decks for their policies to work, but that is another inconvenient fact.

I’m not defending US policy in South America, but let’s not leap from criticizing them implying that t’other lot are saints.
 
jokerman said:
H


Inconveniently, he launched a failed coup first, did he not?

Allende was an example of the now common trend to pursue all out policies rather than compromise when you’ve barely won a democratic mandate in a badly divided country.

The Chicago boys put Chile on a much firmer footing than Allende would have ever managed. I don’t think that justifies the murder and mayhem used to clear the decks for their policies to work, but that is another inconvenient fact.

I’m not defending US policy in South America, but let’s not leap from criticizing them implying that t’other lot are saints.
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I, generally, mistrust all politicians .... however, no nation should underhandedly interfere with another.
 
jokerman said:
H


Inconveniently, he launched a failed coup first, did he not?

Allende was an example of the now common trend to pursue all out policies rather than compromise when you’ve barely won a democratic mandate in a badly divided country.

The Chicago boys put Chile on a much firmer footing than Allende would have ever managed. I don’t think that justifies the murder and mayhem used to clear the decks for their policies to work, but that is another inconvenient fact.

I’m not defending US policy in South America, but let’s not leap from criticizing them implying that t’other lot are saints.
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The truth is whatever it is without comment or interpretation based on the most original and accurate available at that time.

Thats means not just accepting the 'truth' from just the us and showing the full picture. Both sides were humans with all of their failings.

Similar to the current - only believe the pumped out narrative on Afghanistan etc.
 
Jerryattrick said:
The truth is whatever it is without comment or interpretation based on the most original and accurate available at that time.

Thats means not just accepting the 'truth' from just the us and showing the full picture. Both sides were humans with all of their failings.

Similar to the current - only believe the pumped out narrative on Afghanistan etc.
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I’m not sure there’s any social truth independent of the stories told about it, and the stories come thick and fast very early on, sometimes before what they’re about even happens.

Incidentally, I have an image of Allende at a window of the presidential palace with a firearm. For the life of me, I cannot find it today. Just the one with his security detail and them looking up at the aircraft. False memory?
 
jokerman said:
I’m not sure there’s any social truth independent of the stories told about it, and the stories come thick and fast very early on, sometimes before what they’re about even happens.

Incidentally, I have an image of Allende at a window of the presidential palace with a firearm. For the life of me, I cannot find it today. Just the one with his security detail and them looking up at the aircraft. False memory?
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And yes chavez was involved in a coup. As you say history is complicated and reported mostly by the victors.

To me its all just history and humans will do what humans do best. Just like to know the truth so i can change my opinion all of the time lol.
 
I think it's Gilles just wanting to promote his Marxist views, on the back of yesterday's ceremonies and rememberarance
Almost 3000 killed in the name of Islam , but he won't mention it.
Lest we forget.
 
valenciagill said:
I think it's Gilles just wanting to promote his Marxist views, on the back of yesterday's ceremonies and rememberarance
Almost 3000 killed in the name of Islam , but he won't mention it.
Lest we forget.
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And how many thousands then killed by the us etc in afghanistan, syria, iraq and Libya. Does it matter whos child is killed for a killers belief or religion or greed, its still some mothers child?

9/11 was planned in the us and Saudi not in the countries invaded so why invade them.
 
valenciagill said:
I think it's Gilles just wanting to promote his Marxist views, on the back of yesterday's ceremonies and rememberarance
Almost 3000 killed in the name of Islam , but he won't mention it.
Lest we forget.
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Today at 2:05 PM
#1
"…....apart from yesterdays point gained at Burton & the tragic event of twenty years ago..." - I wrote.
(I didn't feel that I needed to write any more about the twin towers, as there is so much online & on the tv at the moment about it. However, many people are not aware or don't remember what happened the same day twenty eight years earlier, in Chile.)

(also, in the link I posted you could've read about a similar number of people who sadly lost their lives) -
"..... In the aftermath of the coup, General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte, commander in chief of the armed forces, became dictator of Chile. He rounded up hundreds of Allende’s supporters, including two American citizens, and had them tortured and executed. The United States immediately offered military and economic aid to the new ruler of Chile–”the savior of democracy”–and the CIA may have helped him identify and capture dissidents. In his 17 years of repressive authoritarian rule, more than 3,000 political opponents were assassinated or “disappeared.”
 
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Gilles Lingam said:
I, generally, mistrust all politicians .... however, no nation should underhandedly interfere with another.
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According to Wiki, Guaido was a member of a political party affiliated with the Socialist International and cut his teeth as a leader of student protests against the government-ordered closure of a privately owned/independent/hostile TV station. Nothing on being trained in the US. He takes guidance from a US-educated, better heeled fellow called Lopez, who was in another party affiliated with the Socialist International. I dare say he's centre-left, ambitious, and has been used by dodgy company that seeks to boost him, but that's hardly surprising. Oh, and he made his move and he lost.[/QUOTE]
 
Gilles Lingam said:
…....apart from yesterdays point gained at Burton & the tragic event of twenty years ago...

we should remember how the US in A effected regime change in Chile, on the 11th September 1973, in their usual manner, "helping" a coup d'etat which removed the elected President Allende, & his socialist coalition government, & "gifting" the country with the 17 year dictatorship of Pinochet …...

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/allende-dies-in-coup
Click to expand...
Well said Gilles

Back in the early 80's I used to know a Chilean political refugee family. Husband was a Union leader and had been tortured by Pinochet's mob. Horrible details. He had to be careful with his diet as he'd been f###ed up.

Was a devout Catholic and no way was he a "Commie". As it happens, it shouldn't matter even if he was.

His poor kids had been traumatised by the whole thing.

We can rightly remind people of this gross injustice as well as also commemorating the tragedy of 9/11.
 
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