League 1 Finances - plenty to peruse here | Page 2 | Vital Football

League 1 Finances - plenty to peruse here

I'd wondered where that crooked scumbag had got to - everything he touches turns to dust, King Midas in reverse. Makes 'the Scottish Gentleman' look a model of probity.
Yep that's where he reappeared...and another club successfully ruined....
Scumbag indeed
 
not quite the 'irresponsible club' story... if the owner had actually funded the business as promised they wouldn't be in such a mess.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/06/aston-villa-tony-xia-bleak-future

Xia, the Chinese businessman who revealed that it was his dream to turn Villa into one of the world’s top three clubs when he took over two years ago, had previously always made regular transfers to cover the outgoings, averaging around £4m a month across his first season. Yet the Guardian understands that those payments were made nothing like as consistently from as far back as 2017.

Now, say what you like about foreign owners, but on a basic level people live life according to the means they have or believe they have. If someone offers you £1m to buy a house, do you buy that house or do you say no?

If Clive Nates pulled out of Lincoln City tomorrow, what would happen?
 
not quite the 'irresponsible club' story... if the owner had actually funded the business as promised they wouldn't be in such a mess.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/06/aston-villa-tony-xia-bleak-future

Xia, the Chinese businessman who revealed that it was his dream to turn Villa into one of the world’s top three clubs when he took over two years ago, had previously always made regular transfers to cover the outgoings, averaging around £4m a month across his first season. Yet the Guardian understands that those payments were made nothing like as consistently from as far back as 2017.

Now, say what you like about foreign owners, but on a basic level people live life according to the means they have or believe they have. If someone offers you £1m to buy a house, do you buy that house or do you say no?

If Clive Nates pulled out of Lincoln City tomorrow, what would happen?

Considering the income generated by his investment at the moment (I believe) would easily cover any withdrawal of funds. Plus depts paid off, extra gate income etc. would also possibly negate the figure.
 
It's quite staggering how many clubs live well beyond their means still!

Does the grave yard of clubs fallen from grace due to financial meltdown just not register or what!

Coventry
Sunderland
Stockport
York
Leyton Orient
Chester
Hereford

etc, etc ,etc!! Unbelievable! :shake:


Not sure if this has been posted but looks as though Oldham are in big do do! Unpaid wages, Tax man after them as well!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...oubles-mystifying-transfers-unpaid-wages.html
 
although luton and coventry have just beaten us to promotion.
look at luton. a history of financial irregularities [guilty in 15 counts], admins, points deductions. and now transfer fees and high wages for berry, hylton, collins etc etc etc etc. overall one of the highest wage bills in league 2, when they could be paying off some of that ££££million loan. #levelplayingfieldmyass
 
It's quite staggering how many clubs live well beyond their means still!

Does the grave yard of clubs fallen from grace due to financial meltdown just not register or what!

Coventry
Sunderland
Stockport
York
Leyton Orient
Chester
Hereford

etc, etc ,etc!! Unbelievable! :shake:


Not sure if this has been posted but looks as though Oldham are in big do do! Unpaid wages, Tax man after them as well!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...oubles-mystifying-transfers-unpaid-wages.html
I think what this demonstrates is that the key issue for any football club is getting the governance and accountability right. Debt in itself is not a bad thing for football clubs - it just needs to be used with responsibility as in any walk of life.

It's reassuring that these views are being expressed as they are a good counter to the buy and spend rhetoric on other social media channels.
 
not quite the 'irresponsible club' story... if the owner had actually funded the business as promised they wouldn't be in such a mess.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/06/aston-villa-tony-xia-bleak-future

Xia, the Chinese businessman who revealed that it was his dream to turn Villa into one of the world’s top three clubs when he took over two years ago, had previously always made regular transfers to cover the outgoings, averaging around £4m a month across his first season. Yet the Guardian understands that those payments were made nothing like as consistently from as far back as 2017.

Now, say what you like about foreign owners, but on a basic level people live life according to the means they have or believe they have. If someone offers you £1m to buy a house, do you buy that house or do you say no?

If Clive Nates pulled out of Lincoln City tomorrow, what would happen?
This is why despite the short term gain I'm not sure I would want a huge injection of money into Lincoln, the what happens when it dries up question. Big clubs have an advantage that attracting another investor is relatively easy, not so with Lincoln.
 
This is why despite the short term gain I'm not sure I would want a huge injection of money into Lincoln, the what happens when it dries up question. Big clubs have an advantage that attracting another investor is relatively easy, not so with Lincoln.

But realistically it is the only way a club like ours can rise higher than League One.
 
This is why despite the short term gain I'm not sure I would want a huge injection of money into Lincoln, the what happens when it dries up question. Big clubs have an advantage that attracting another investor is relatively easy, not so with Lincoln.
What do you think happened when Nates came in? That’s exactly how we got the Cowley’s, Woody, Habergham and Raggett.
We’re just very lucky that the investment payed off very well for Mr Nates with the cup run allowing us to become self sustaining for a little bit rather than rely on him.
 
What do you think happened when Nates came in? That’s exactly how we got the Cowley’s, Woody, Habergham and Raggett.
We’re just very lucky that the investment payed off very well for Mr Nates with the cup run allowing us to become self sustaining for a little bit rather than rely on him.
were we lucky? is spending the investment in the correct places and making good business decisions generally lucky? the manager instrumental in both the cup run and promotion. the three players mentioned also instrumental. two of those players sold for a large profit - in our terms. the manager makes us self-sustaining again this season with the checkatrade win. most likely the manager will make us more money when he leaves...
 
But realistically it is the only way a club like ours can rise higher than League One.

Maybe. Did Burton Albion have that? Shrewsbury very nearly got there wihtout big investment.

I agree that it is very, very difficult to compete without money because so many clubs have "Investors". There's always at least 3-4 of them in any given division.
 
were we lucky? is spending the investment in the correct places and making good business decisions generally lucky? the manager instrumental in both the cup run and promotion. the three players mentioned also instrumental. two of those players sold for a large profit - in our terms. the manager makes us self-sustaining again this season with the checkatrade win. most likely the manager will make us more money when he leaves...
There’s an element of risk, thus luck, to all investments, if there wasn’t we wouldn’t have spent however many years looking for this investment and had people queuing up. But fair enough, Nates may have minimised the risk with where he placed his money.
 
What do you think happened when Nates came in? That’s exactly how we got the Cowley’s, Woody, Habergham and Raggett.
We’re just very lucky that the investment payed off very well for Mr Nates with the cup run allowing us to become self sustaining for a little bit rather than rely on him.
That's why I said 'huge', the levels we get are nothing compared to the millions of debts being talked about in this thread. Hundreds of thousands is not tens of millions.
 
were we lucky? is spending the investment in the correct places and making good business decisions generally lucky? the manager instrumental in both the cup run and promotion. the three players mentioned also instrumental. two of those players sold for a large profit - in our terms. the manager makes us self-sustaining again this season with the checkatrade win. most likely the manager will make us more money when he leaves...

Yes, it is almost entirely luck.

All managerial appointments are leaps into the unknown and player transfers can work out or not work out because of so many variables it's almost impossible to predict. We can all think of dozens of examples within this club alone.

You can't make "good business decisions" in football because if you base any plan on what you think will happen, it will almost certainly not work out as you expected. And because of the nature of the game that means it's more likely you get failure rather than success.

And what's more, the figures in this thread show that nobody, anywhere, is making good business decisions.

Everyone is losing money in a speculative race to get higher up the pyramid. Ironically the result of that for most who get there, punching above their weight, is even greater debt.

And some people call football a business.
 
"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen, nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."
 
Yes, it is almost entirely luck.

All managerial appointments are leaps into the unknown and player transfers can work out or not work out because of so many variables it's almost impossible to predict. We can all think of dozens of examples within this club alone.

You can't make "good business decisions" in football because if you base any plan on what you think will happen, it will almost certainly not work out as you expected. And because of the nature of the game that means it's more likely you get failure rather than success.

And what's more, the figures in this thread show that nobody, anywhere, is making good business decisions.

Everyone is losing money in a speculative race to get higher up the pyramid. Ironically the result of that for most who get there, punching above their weight, is even greater debt.

And some people call football a business.
of course you can make good business decisions in football. you can welcome one board member or another to the club. the board can employ one manager or another. the manager can employ one player or another.

using your own logic, why aren't all managerial decisions in all businesses leaps into the unknown? all staff employment can work out or not work out because of so many variables? and of course, just like football, many more businesses fail than succeed. some businesses are more successful than others. and at the top of the business league table there are huge debt levels.

some football clubs make money. it depends how they are run. so overall business and football sound very similar to me. then again, some countries are successful, and some are in huge debt, so maybe the whole thing is almost entirely based on luck.
 
of course you can make good business decisions in football. you can welcome one board member or another to the club. the board can employ one manager or another. the manager can employ one player or another.

using your own logic, why aren't all managerial decisions in all businesses leaps into the unknown? all staff employment can work out or not work out because of so many variables? and of course, just like football, many more businesses fail than succeed. some businesses are more successful than others. and at the top of the business league table there are huge debt levels.

some football clubs make money. it depends how they are run. so overall business and football sound very similar to me. then again, some countries are successful, and some are in huge debt, so maybe the whole thing is almost entirely based on luck.

No, football, sport, is completely unlike a regular business

For a start, regular business is not a zero-sum game. Markets are elastic, sport is not, each week there is a result and an updated table of winners and losers.

Good businesses know that if they position the right products at the right price and have them available then they will sell them. Costs can be predicted and controlled.

None of this is possible in football. If you predict your income conservatively and budget accordingly you will straight away be priced out of the market for players. You will then have to get lucky, because in football there is a very limited pool of available talent. In general business practice most people are just doing a job, the pool of labour is large.

I'd ask you to tell me any football clubs that regularly make money? In fact, I'll help you out: Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona. That's it. Finished. Finito. There is no football club, other than those giant institutions, that makes money.

Peterborough I've always thought of as a club that makes the best of itself, buying players cheap and selling them dear. As of 2017 Peterborough United was technically invsolvent with a 1.4m loss that year and accumulated losses of over £11m. Reliant on loans from its Chairman.

I'll wager his actual business is not run in that way. And nor, I would say is the furniture business run by Notts County's owner.
 
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