Lascelles | Vital Football

Lascelles

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
I think he gets a lot of stick from our supporters because he sided with Ashley and stated he was a "nice guy".

He's not the worst defender we have,when he was out the team injured the mistakes made by the other defenders, especially free headers at corners was unbelievable.
 

Rza

Vital Champions League
#4
I think he gets a lot of stick from our supporters because he sided with Ashley and stated he was a "nice guy".
My opinion was based purely on talent nothing political. He's a championship level defender and decent back up. Why he is on the first team and playing in the centre of a defensive 5 sort of implies he's our best defender. He's not very reliable is he. I mean look at fernandez and the club haven't offered him a deal yet.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
My opinion was based purely on talent nothing political. He's a championship level defender and decent back up. Why he is on the first team and playing in the centre of a defensive 5 sort of implies he's our best defender. He's not very reliable is he. I mean look at fernandez and the club haven't offered him a deal yet.
I think the best way to judge Lascelles is when he's out injured,he's no Beckenbauer but neither are any of the others.

As already mentioned just look at the type of goals we concede when he is not in the team.
 

Rza

Vital Champions League
#6
Ok so maybe he is a really good leader hence why is captain. I'm just saying he's not that good and we have 3 defenders better at defending than him. If it were down to me id have someone reliable like dubravka as captain but what do I know
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#7
Aye it's one for debate Rza as so many think he's crap.

Personally I think he is the one the team miss most in the air defensively when out injured.

Take a look at the very first game he missed after getting knackered against Bournemouth and the type of goals we conceded without him.

Their second makes it even more baffling to me why Lascelles is singled out especially as there are plenty more examples of absolute crap defending from the others.
 

Rza

Vital Champions League
#8
Don't get me wrong lascelles has potential like Darren bent saysin the article but he's well into his twenties now and it's about time he realised his potential. He has a good game every now and then or comes up with 1 brilliant tackle but that's his job and imo he doesn't do it consistently enough. On current form and ignoring injuries, those 3 I mentioned should be in the starting 11 but they're not because Bruce won't drop the captain.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
It's the 'singling out' thing that I don't get as well PM

I don't know anyone who thinks he's a fantastic defender but he seems to be judged by others as if he should be a fantastic defender

He's a three and a half million signing from a Championship club and yet he gets the blame for poor games as if he should be Virgil van Dijk

He's a typical Ashley signing and I have no idea why he is judged by a totally seperate set of rules to anyone else

I'm having a similar conversation over the road but I would genuinely like to hear a reasoned breakdown of why he got singled out for the 4 goals conceded against Arsenal
 
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Rza

Vital Champions League
#10
No one is singling him out and I certainly didn't blame him for the goals against arsenal. Schar is also a "3.5 million Ashley signing". So I really don't see your point. The guy was being mentioned for England not so long ago and is the club captain here, so why is he not still being mentioned? Wasn't Fernandez signed on a free? How much did Clark cost? Lejeune is also a better defender. You make absolutely no sense with your logic. All I'm saying is he doesn't deserve to be in the teamor the captaincy and someone hasyet to give me any reasons to prove otherwise
 
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McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#11
Haha - no one is singling him out? - what's this thread about then?

He is being singled out - on here and across social media

Just because we have other cheap/free defenders doesn't make my argument illogical either. My point was that even though he cost only 3.5 million it seems the expectations of his detractors far exceeds that sum

He wasn't to blame for any of the goals on Sunday (your words) yet doesn't deserve to be in the team (again your words) - weird
 

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#12
In centre back terms, Lascelles is still a kid and he was cheap. I find myself agreeing with McCreery.

With a half decent owner, he would be playing alongside someone like Bobby Moore to learn. I would argue that the most accomplished English centre backs I have seen were Des Walker and Sol Campbell in their 30s, maybe add in Rio Ferdinand.

in order of cost, we had:
Colo
Lejeune
Woodgate
Boumsong
Mbemba
Fernandez
Mbiwa

and nobody else over £5million.

I would love an Aston Martin but on my budget, my Insignia gets me from A to B with occasional problems with my NOX sensors.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
I think the better debate would be how Bruce sets the defence up

Also taking into consideration the amount of minutes per game our back 5 (or 3) actually have to be at the top of their game due to our lack of posession
 

Rexn

Vital Champions League
#14
Good point again, McCreery. What is coming over you?

I am not convinced that is has been Bruce setting up the defence. For me, the player meeting that preceded going to a back 3(+2) is a bit of a coincidence.

As compared with the 2nd half of last season, it may be that he hasn't got a clue about what the last manager called "transition". As for wor Steve (aka Mrs Doubtfire), transition is what his namesake, Bruce Jenner did.

Maybe it is other teams not having to defend the transition that invites more pressure. Of course, it could just be down to not having a target like Rondon.
 
#15
Lascelles deserved a call up in the Summer leading up to the Russian World Cup as he was playing just as well as any other English defender at the time, regardless of overall ability. If anything to give him a chance to realise his potential.

That said, his leadership qualities have to be taken into account of him getting a game because he does talk non-stop along with Matt Ritchie.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#16
Lascelles deserved a call up in the Summer leading up to the Russian World Cup as he was playing just as well as any other English defender at the time, regardless of overall ability. If anything to give him a chance to realise his potential.

That said, his leadership qualities have to be taken into account of him getting a game because he does talk non-stop along with Matt Ritchie.
He puts his body on the line as well,no doubt the team have better footballers at the back but as stated earlier they miss him when he's out.
Thinking about it the stick he gets is similar to what Stephen Taylor used to have thrown at him..
 

keggy_keagal

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17
He wasn't as good as everyone was saying when he was being praised to the heavens two or so years ago and he's not as bad as everyone's saying now. He's a middling English centre half. Better than some who seem to walk into England squads (Michael Keane for example) and better than Taylor anyday.
 

PieMag

Vital 1st Team Regular
#18
It's the 'singling out' thing that I don't get as well PM

I would genuinely like to hear a reasoned breakdown of why he got singled out for the 4 goals conceded against Arsenal
You are not going to have your wish granted mate.
It's the same mentality that made many hate Pardcunt but love Rafa then hate Broocie ,sit through three years of eye bleeding football whilst purring about tactics then complain about lack of entertainment in games where two of our players are hell bent on entertaining,there's no logic to it and there's no reasoning.

The ten games and sixteen odd goals conceded when Lascelles was crocked and the ten before where fifteen were conceded along with video evidence suggests a witch hunt.
 

McCreery

Vital 1st Team Regular
#19
You are not going to have your wish granted mate.
It's the same mentality that made many hate Pardcunt but love Rafa then hate Broocie ,sit through three years of eye bleeding football whilst purring about tactics then complain about lack of entertainment in games where two of our players are hell bent on entertaining,there's no logic to it and there's no reasoning.

The ten games and sixteen odd goals conceded when Lascelles was crocked and the ten before where fifteen were conceded along with video evidence suggests a witch hunt.

Exactly Pm - I'm not trying to be a clever fucker when I ask for an explanation, I'm just genuinely interested to try and understand what it is they see that I just don't

I think there are at least a couple of people on here who watch the match purely with a view to pulling him apart - I genuinely think they see Lascelles as being the closest person to the scorer and blame him regardless, whilst totally ignoring the two or three mistakes that have led to the back line being pulled out of shape in the first place - I've seen loads of instances where he has gone to close a man or a space down and has been left to look a mug because nobody has covered the space he's just vacated

It does seem a bit strange that none of his more vocal critics have joined the conversation as yet though


Just to add that I'm not saying he is never at fault either - I just don't get why he's the only defender singled out
 
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Rza

Vital Champions League
#20
So compare him to what we already have.

Is he better than Fernandez? No

Is he better than Lejeune? No

Schar? No

Clark? I would say on recent form No

Seems everyone is over ratinghim because he's English.

Proveme wrong

Edit: no one is fucking singling him out. It's no different than having a topic of discussion and creating a thread labelled "schar" or "clark" or "Fernandez" that's the whole point of the forum. Or should I just delete the thread???
 
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