Lamela, surplus to requirements? | Page 3 | Vital Football

Lamela, surplus to requirements?

I think the difference here is that Dele's issues seem to be off the pitch problems (looking from the outside). He was was in the starting eleven for Everton and in the pre-season friendlies. His footballing capabilities didn't deteriorate overnight.

Something seems to have happened after his substitution against Everton. Did he overreact to the substitution? Did he cross the line in his reaction, possibly in front of the other players? Jose's bullying reputation precedes him but there's a way of doing things if you're unhappy as a player. Maybe Dele's response in training hasn't been good enough?

From the outside it's very difficult to draw firm conclusions either way. But on footballing ability alone he would be closer to the first eleven than he currently is.

That is the mystery we're all wondering. Dele had a decent pre-season but got the hook after 45 mins against Everton. We could all see with our own eyes he wasn't the worst player in that half. Jose said it was for tactical reasons based on Ancelotti's setup, but then went on to admit his tactical switches didn't work on this occasion. That's OK.

I think you're right in that something went wrong in the relationship either post match or sometime after. That was 13th Sep. It is now 29 Oct. That's 10 matches later and 2 international breaks. I also have a feeling it's tactical. I remember Dele playing holding midfield against Dortmund and all those other times when he dug in with the 2 midfielders. I think he needs to get more into that mode versus wanting to be the number 10.
 
The bigger question for me about Lamela is if his main asset is what he brings as a sub, is that enough for him to merit inclusion in the squad at all?

Squad players have to be ready to provide competition for starters and to stand in when injuries and rotation demand.

If a player's value is only as as sub, isn't that a luxury too far?
 
The bigger question for me about Lamela is if his main asset is what he brings as a sub, is that enough for him to merit inclusion in the squad at all?

Squad players have to be ready to provide competition for starters and to stand in when injuries and rotation demand.

If a player's value is only as as sub, isn't that a luxury too far?

He still does a good job when he starts I just think he's a better sub player.
 
The bigger question for me about Lamela is if his main asset is what he brings as a sub, is that enough for him to merit inclusion in the squad at all?

Squad players have to be ready to provide competition for starters and to stand in when injuries and rotation demand.

If a player's value is only as as sub, isn't that a luxury too far?

I'd much rather have a player who can compete for a place, but we're stuck with him for the duration now and as long as he leaves it all on the pitch everytime he gets a chance ..of course, he'll still run into deadends, his final ball will often be lacking and his tacklng and giving unnecessary free kicks away in dangerous area's will still keep happening - he can't change his game now.
 
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I'd much rather have a player who can compete for a place, but we're stuck with him for the duration now and as long as he leave sit all on the pitch everytim ehe gets a chance ..of course, he'll still run into deadends, his final ball will often be lacking and his tacklng and giving unnecessary free kicks away in dangerous area's will still keep happening - he can't change his game now.

I will watch in future when Lamela runs with the ball what options he has. Have players gone with him. If he's on the right he will probably cut in or play the ball with the outside of his left foot. So....has he got players either side of him ? Or making a run .

If he's on the left they need to be waiting for a cross or Davies / Reggie needs to be overlapping waiting for a weighted pass into the corner.
 
That is the mystery we're all wondering. Dele had a decent pre-season but got the hook after 45 mins against Everton. We could all see with our own eyes he wasn't the worst player in that half. Jose said it was for tactical reasons based on Ancelotti's setup, but then went on to admit his tactical switches didn't work on this occasion. That's OK.

I think you're right in that something went wrong in the relationship either post match or sometime after. That was 13th Sep. It is now 29 Oct. That's 10 matches later and 2 international breaks. I also have a feeling it's tactical. I remember Dele playing holding midfield against Dortmund and all those other times when he dug in with the 2 midfielders. I think he needs to get more into that mode versus wanting to be the number 10.
I tend to agree with you, I see no reason why Dele can't play in a deeper role. He has the tenacity in him as we've all seen in the past, so it can only be that he's not training hard enough. We all know that the feisty Dele of 3yrs ago would've been right up Jose Street.
 
I'd much rather have a player who can compete for a place, but we're stuck with him for the duration now and as long as he leaves it all on the pitch everytime he gets a chance ..of course, he'll still run into deadends, his final ball will often be lacking and his tacklng and giving unnecessary free kicks away in dangerous area's will still keep happening - he can't change his game now.

Bundles of enthusiasm pity he hasn't got the quality to match.
 
I will watch in future when Lamela runs with the ball what options he has. Have players gone with him. If he's on the right he will probably cut in or play the ball with the outside of his left foot. So....has he got players either side of him ? Or making a run .

If he's on the left they need to be waiting for a cross or Davies / Reggie needs to be overlapping waiting for a weighted pass into the corner.

I can't believe you even need to now Nick, he's done it so many times now it sticks in my head everytime I see him push the ball forward - you haven't just got to watchs as he starts/end his runs, you have to consider if a quick pass would have done better in the first place; his first touch is often so poor that by the time he has his feet under control it's already too late - just look at how trying to close down N'dombele is a nightmare for the opposition, as he sees the ball coming to him or has won the ball in his head hes already made that forward pass because he's adjusted his body shape and already has a picture in his head that allows him to 'see' his options.

But Lamela doesn't, he goes on a run, everyone gets excited and normally - I'd say 7 times out 10 - at best. He runs himself into a blind ally or loses the ball easily.
 
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I can't believe you even need to now Nick, he's done it so many times now it sticks in my head everytime I see him push the ball forward - you haven't just got to watchs as he starts/end his runs, you have to consider if a quick pass would have done better in the first place; his first touch is often so poor that by the time he has his feet under control it's already too late - just look at how trying to close down N'dombele is a nightmare for the opposition, as he sees the ball coming to him or has won the ball in his head hes already made that forward pass because he's adjusted his body shape and already has a picture in his that allows him to 'see' his options.

But he doesn't, he goes on a run, everyone gets excited and normally - I'd say 7 times out 10 - at best. He runs himself into a blind ally or loses the ball easily.

I kind of already know but I want to start looking again with the new dynamic we have.
 
I can't believe you even need to now Nick, he's done it so many times now it sticks in my head everytime I see him push the ball forward - you haven't just got to watchs as he starts/end his runs, you have to consider if a quick pass would have done better in the first place; his first touch is often so poor that by the time he has his feet under control it's already too late - just look at how trying to close down N'dombele is a nightmare for the opposition, as he sees the ball coming to him or has won the ball in his head hes already made that forward pass because he's adjusted his body shape and already has a picture in his that allows him to 'see' his options.

But he doesn't, he goes on a run, everyone gets excited and normally - I'd say 7 times out 10 - at best. He runs himself into a blind ally or loses the ball easily.

Seven years of uncorrected errors. Hmm.
 
I can't believe you even need to now Nick, he's done it so many times now it sticks in my head everytime I see him push the ball forward - you haven't just got to watchs as he starts/end his runs, you have to consider if a quick pass would have done better in the first place; his first touch is often so poor that by the time he has his feet under control it's already too late - just look at how trying to close down N'dombele is a nightmare for the opposition, as he sees the ball coming to him or has won the ball in his head hes already made that forward pass because he's adjusted his body shape and already has a picture in his head that allows him to 'see' his options.

But Lamela deoesn't, he goes on a run, everyone gets excited and normally - I'd say 7 times out 10 - at best. He runs himself into a blind ally or loses the ball easily.

One could ask what is the success rate that is acceptable from attacking players ? Players like Loco, Ndombele, Alli, Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela, even Bale ?
 
One could ask what is the success rate that is acceptable from attacking players ? Players like Loco, Ndombele, Alli, Moura, Bergwijn and Lamela, even Bale ?

One could ask that, or you can simply recall how few times he achieved a 'success' - assist/key pass / goal at the end or even start of these runs?!

His strength when used as a sub is bringing his crude tackling and energy to bear, when he starts clearly he generaly has no where near the same impact.

That said, as I said the other day I am told by a member of our staff that he is as fit as he's ever been since joining Spurs, which is an indictment/debate we can have all day long.

I was astounded when we gave him a new deal after his physical history and to be honest it still confounds me.
 
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Since lockdown he's playing his best football for us since he arrived.
Yes he loses the ball but the chaos he brings inevitably makes things happens. Far too often our attack is static and waiting for something to happen.

At the very least his recent form maybe willl have done enough to attract offers in the future so that we can maybe get something for him
 
One could ask that, or you can simply recall how few times he achieved a 'success' - assist/key pass / goal at the end or even start of these runs?!

His strength when used as a sub is bringing his crude tacjking and energy to bear, when he starts clearly he generaly has no where near the same impact.

That said, as I said the other day I am told by a member of our staff that he is as fit as he's ever been since joining Spurs, which is an indictment/debate we can have all day long.

I was astounded when we gave him a new deal after his physical history and to be honest it still confounds me.

I think Lamela fans having a problem with Lamela's new contract is OK, but only if you look at it in isolation. At he time, we had ageing centre halves and Eriksen running his contract down and it was a mess at full-back. We were short in attacking midfielder and no kids had come through. I sort of get why we re-signed Lamela, especially based on his resale value at the time.

I do agree with this article though. We have Aurier, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela and Moura that I would be looking to churn. We should consider offers for all of them and bring in better, younger replacements. I'd also be interested in peoples views if Gedson, Clarke or Dele had played all of Lamela's minutes this season. Would the outcome have been better or worse?
 
I do agree with this article though. We have Aurier, Toby, Sissoko, Lamela and Moura that I would be looking to churn. We should consider offers for all of them and bring in better, younger replacements. I'd also be interested in peoples views if Gedson, Clarke or Dele had played all of Lamela's minutes this season. Would the outcome have been better or worse?

Gedson - Worse.
Clarke - Worse initially, but maybe better over time.
Dele - Unfortunately that seems hypothetical.