Knob end away | Page 4 | Vital Football

Knob end away

Say what you like but even in our last relegation season we never lost by such a big margin.
Absolutely abysmal showing today plus two late goals again conceded, when will we learn not to concede in the last 10 mins?
I knew there would be losses and poor performances along the way, but really, 4-0 against a team that had only won once previously and has the worst defensive record in the league,
Absolutely no excuses for this one, we always seem to pick our games to have a collectively bad performance.
We need to use the international break to get our act together and time for a few home truths to be said, we haven't played well going forward for a few games now and it needs sorting.
I can't believe we are so reliant on Gavin Massey to give us some pace up front, I am usually a glass half full person but today is a real kick in the teeth.
 
joblot said:
What was the idea of bring burn on when Powell went off. And why McMannaman dose not start ahead of Windass is beyond me.
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Windass will be sold in January. He has no roll to play at Latics. He isn't a wise man and he isn't a winger yet for some reason we try very unsuccessfully to put a square peg in a round hole. The only alternative is Macca but for some reason whether it's fitness or what we are sliding playing the lad out of position.
Just watched the highlights this morning of a truly great Latics side when Teale tore Nob End apart. The days when we played real attacking football. Would never have seen Paul Jewell make a ridiculous substitution like today when we were chasing a game.
 
Going to try and keep this as short as possible. Although after finishing this post it turned our to be much longer than expected.

Decision to drop Lee Evans was beyond any words i can write here. There's no reasoning for that decision. When we've been as poor as we have been this week, the one man you want on the field is a set piece specialist, possibly the best in the league to at least give us a chance of creating something.

That a side the past three performances were similar to the majority of our performance's last season. Difference being the standard of opposition is much lower in the league below, even when we were second best we'd get spells of control. At this level it is much harder to maintain control for periods, whilst being second best to a majority of situations.

The biggest issue for me and the single most important part of our style of play is the defensive line's positioning. It is extremely pivotal to 4-2-3-1 being successful, exciting and good to watch. If our defender's were to follow the two defensive midfielders, maintain as small a gap as possible whilst asking them to aim to be at the half way line as often as possible it would compress the space behind the defensive midfielders. Allowing the fullbacks to get forward as their starting position would be higher and they would have less distance to cover to get back and defend. Also stops the opposition gaining free territory by positioning their higher up the pitch. Decreases the gaps between our players making it harder for the other team to play through, increasing our ability to press from the front.

Similar to our first four games, when we were seeing defenders have to defend 1v1. I'd personally like to see us even higher than we were back than to compress the space given and allow our players more opportunities to attack from a higher starting position.

It's extremely difficult to pass the ball well while being so deep, the midfield today would be where i'd like to see the defenders positioned. Jacobs and Windass being asked to collect the ball in the build up phase deep inside our own half. Not sure what the plan was for the next phase of play other than kicking the ball long as no other player other than Grigg was ahead of the play.

On a side note, i'd like to see Richardson stop praising the players ect after poor performances, against Norwich and Swansea. We didn't create a single opening and to praise them for those performances is ridiculous and lowering the standards expected of the players.

Positive, i trust Cook. I hope he will learn,fairly quickly that players who are not performing cannot be carried at this level and any learning required can be done on a daily basis at the training ground. Hopefully he will look back on this week and not think maybe we could of had two points from decent performances. When in all honesty we were very poor this week and second best in all three games.
 
NYC_LATICS said:
This is the first Saturday match I haven't been able to watch a stream of all year (wife's birthday) and boy did I pick a good one to miss.

Ever since Massey got hurt at QPR we've haven't had the least bit of a goal scoring threat away from home. I hope this is a wake-up call for Cook to switch things up because we are approaching the point of insanity with his team selections.
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It was live on telly here, kicked off at midnight that finished at nearly 3 am as the clocks went forward, hahaha
 
The best team won on the day.

Terrible performances will occur occasionally, but 17 points out of 36 is still a very good return. The aim is survival. If we achieve that, this season will be a success.

I trust Cook. He's still learning.
 
We were dreadful today and Cook got it completely wrong however, don't let the scoreline kid you into thinking Preston played well, two poor sides on the day, one that was aided massively by the worst refereeing performance I've ever seen.

First goal referee sticks his leg out and deflects Morsys clearance back into our penalty box, yes Robinson should have block the shot and yes Walton should have saved it but if the dick head ref hadn't have kicked the ball to a Preston player it would have been at the other end of the pitch. At that point Preston hadn't had a shot and looked nervous as hell.

Pearsons studs up lunge from behind on 30 minutes against Powell was a disgusting tackle and Robinsons studs up challenge from behind on Morsy after 40 minutes, were both clear red cards. Referee does his job and it's 9 v 11 with 50 to play which could have changed the game, despite how poor we'd have been up until that point.

Gibsons foul was cynical but he sticks leg out and hooks the Preston lad (who should have been sent off earlier) ankle, it's a yellow card. Preston had 3 tackles far worse than Gibsons.

Prestons penalty was as soft as they come and the strikers conned big time.

McManaman was tripped in the box and Burn has his shorts pulled as he was about to kick the ball in the box, both penalties and not given. James getting cleaned out on the half way line and Grigg getting booked for it was the icing on the cake for the referees shitness.

So yes we were utterly abysmal deserved nothing from the game but that ridiculous scoreline would not have happened if the referee had produced the correct decisions.
 
If Kennys glass is not half full this evening then I think it sums up the game.

I guess we all have days when we come to work and have complete nightmares. Today was clearly one of those days for players and manager alike. Thankfully Cook didn't look to take 'positives' out of it and was honest in his assessment, not looking to blow smoke up our arses. Credit to him for that.

To be honest as we've said previously we've looked lacklustre for a number of weeks so today's performance hasn't surprised me. For me we look ineffective offensively with Windass on the wing and have done so since he's played there - though in fairness to him he says that position isnt suited to him. I guess the options are limited and is reflective of a poor transfer window. Again Robinson not great but lack of alternatives means he can't be rested.

I'm not overly worried at present, my only expectation this season is to avoid relegation, for those thinking and hoping we'll make the play offs I guess they may be distraught given the reality is we are no where near good enough. Cook is a good enough manager so talk of him wanting him out even we don't pick up much in the coming weeks is nonsense in my personal opinion. This takeover, which has been going on now for over a year, must be having some form of impact given we can't give out new contracts, erode uncertainty and create stability. Christ knows when we'll have a resolution but it needs to be fast.

This break is a double edged sword. We are always shite after it, but I think after today it gives Cook some time to reflect on the system, set up and selection going forward.
 
We can rotate plenty of players without too much trouble. But Evans isn’t one of them.

Maybe if we’d gone 4-4-2 or played with outright widemen we could get away with it. But if everything is going through the middle Evans needs to be in there.

Burn coming on was strange as it didn’t change our approach and he was well out of sorts. If we where going to switch it up after Powell’s departure we should have played Grigg & Windass in a two. With McManaman & Jacobs pushed out wide.

All that said if you’re going to play poorly and get beaten you may as well use it to shake things up. James aside no player can think their position is safe. Maybe things where getting a little too comfortable.
 
Am I the only one sick of continually having to move seats on away games to see the game because of selfish individuals standing up either during the whole game or at times when the ball approaches the near goal? Had to move 4 times today. Seats are for sitting on and ground regulations at each ground state this. Clubs have got to do something about this. Stewards today were useless. They just shrugged their shoulders and say they can't do anything about it. If you pay for a seat you should expect to sit down and watch the game without the thoughtless and selfish actions of those who insist on standing. No doubt many in this chat room stand and I will end up with a load of abuse but if you are then I would be interested to hear how you can justify spoiling the match for many others.
As I write this am still on the train back to Leicester and will have had a round trip of 12 hours today to watch (or try to watch) that shambles so am not in the best of moods but even if we hadn't been stuffed today, would still be very unhappy with the 'standers'.
 
I prefer to sit down Leics, but when we play away, I accept that it's likely we'll all be standing. I suppose I could go to a side seat, or nearer the front, but I choose not to. We were 2/3s back today, and I have to say that many in front of us were sat down in the second half........ all pissed off!
 
Studds40 said:
We can rotate plenty of players without too much trouble. But Evans isn’t one of them.

Maybe if we’d gone 4-4-2 or played with outright widemen we could get away with it. But if everything is going through the middle Evans needs to be in there.

Burn coming on was strange as it didn’t change our approach and he was well out of sorts. If we where going to switch it up after Powell’s departure we should have played Grigg & Windass in a two. With McManaman & Jacobs pushed out wide.

All that said if you’re going to play poorly and get beaten you may as well use it to shake things up. James aside no player can think their position is safe. Maybe things where getting a little too comfortable.
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Now then don't suggest two up top, you'll get scorned on for that.
We all remember how shite the days of Ellington and Roberts with Teale out wide. F'ing garbage that shite.
 
Bought some crap over the years Bought some this time thats for sure Windass work rate nil and Garner cant see any thing he gives us at all
 
A terrible day at the office.

Astonished to read that it was our biggest margin of defeat since we lost 4-0 to Liverpool at home in March 2013 back in the Prem. Surprising considering we’ve been relegated three times since then - and perhaps indicative of how truly awful today was.

4-0 might have been a bit harsh though, ref keeps Gibson on the pitch/sends Pearson off for taking Powell out of the game and it could’ve been a different story. Still, the distinct lack of attacking potency over the last few games is cause for concern. I had horrifying flashbacks today of Jan-May 2017 when I was paying actual money to watch Gabriel Obertan running sideways across the pitch aimlessly for 90 minutes and Omar Bogle standing about on his own outside the box looking like a lost kid in a supermarket.

Think we need to treat the West Brom game as a ‘nothing to lose’ type of contest - shake things up a bit and see what happens. If we lose like we’re expected to against an excellent side, at least we might learn something along the way. I fear we didn’t really learn much today, as unfortunately the signs have been there for a few games at least.

P.S. No real criticism of Windass, because he’s not a winger, but I reckon Gavin Massey on crutches would be more effective down that right side than him. He needs to be coming on as an impact sub in place of Powell/Grigg down the middle as he’s like a fish out of water on the wing. Robinson needs to buck his ideas up too defensively, and I wouldn’t be too opposed to giving Nathan Byrne a run out at LB, or alternatively play him at RB and switch James over to the left against WBA.

I’m not used to being this negative, it gives me a headache - I’m going for a lie down....
 
I've given Windass a lot of benefit of the doubt and i accept he doesn't want to be on the right or today the left of midfield but he's just not done anywhere near enough to remotely suggest he is 2.5m worth of player or that he has much to offer even if we moved him to another area of the pitch. He's been a massive let down so far, if he wants to push his way into a more central role he's doing himself no favours. Needs dropping for McMannaman who at least tries to make things happen every time he gets the ball.

Gibson was great against Sheff Wed and looked decent against Rotherham as a sub but he's been poor the last few apperances and he's not fit to lace Lee Evans boots. Unless Evans had a knock or something that change to the starting line up was mind boggling.

At first Robinson looked a little suspect defensively but a very exciting and effective attacking wing back - he was like a winger more than a defender who made our system click but reseccently his game has been completely nutered. He's stopped running at his men and getting forward so often and without the other side of his game which is his strength he's exposing how poor defensively he is and now he's just turned into a crap full full back. Not sure if it's a loss of confidence or he's been instructed to be less attack minded but he needs to get back to playing with that aggression that was driving us forward so effectively. If he isn't going to bomb down the wing the he's not worth being on the pitch.

The double def mid pivot has stopped coming to get the ball off the defenders and keepers, the full backs have stopped overlapping and the attack midfield have stopped running at their man or even running into space. There's no movement or tempo and no one looming to take responsibility. Leaving us with no option but to pump it long to an isolated Grigg who we know is awful as a target man and pray someone it somehow magically leads to a goal. The approach was utterly nonsensical.

I bet Preston couldn't have nutralised us better in their wildest dreams than we did to ourselves. We hid all of our strengths and delibertly played to our weaknesses. It feels like Cook wants us to be more physical but we simply haven't got the players to make it work and every time we do try it's garbage. We are a vastly better side when we play pass and move and when we do that it has worked well. There are clearly different instructions when we play away and they need to be scrapped immediately.
 
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In the first couple of games we were playing attacking free flowing passing football with lots of movement off the ball to just hitting the reverse button and going to some stoneage type football.
Cook tried this last season and it did not work, the points kept ticking in but thas was (imo) more down to individual skill than any tactics.
Please go back and actually play football instead of this lump and fight ball.

For me the formation is always second the the actual tactics but if this stoneage football continues then even i would like to see a second striker to help Grigg or whoever start even tough i dont believe that 4-4-2 with "real wingers(whatever that means)" is the best formation in the modern game.
 
Back in Jan, I bought the Mrs tickets for ELO at Manchester Arena for her birthday, long before the fixtures came out, and I was spitting nails when I saw which match I was missing.
As it’s turned out, thank God for Jeff Lynne !
(Actually another of our brethren who I would have laid odds on would have been destined for Deepdale on his “battle bus” was sat behind me !)
 
joblot said:
What was the idea of bring burn on when Powell went off. And why McMannaman dose not start ahead of Windass is beyond me.
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Burn -could it be that he wanted a back 3 and push up James & Robinson in attacking roles.
Callum - could it be that he’s not fit?
As we always say - he saw them daily in training & we do not.
 
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