Knife crime epidemic | Vital Football

Knife crime epidemic

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#1
People break into someones house and rob them at knifepoint - latest Deli Ali obviously.

Thousands robbed at knifepoint on the streets and hundreds killed. When we have a terrorism act or the death of an MP then all resources are chucked at tracking down the perpetrators.

This is a national disgrace but hardly anyone gives a f. We feel sorry for anyone dying from a virus but not the knife crime epidemic.
 

valenciagill

Vital 1st Team Regular
#2
People break into someones house and rob them at knifepoint - latest Deli Ali obviously.

Thousands robbed at knifepoint on the streets and hundreds killed. When we have a terrorism act or the death of an MP then all resources are chucked at tracking down the perpetrators.

This is a national disgrace but hardly anyone gives a f. We feel sorry for anyone dying from a virus but not the knife crime epidemic.
I hope you've got a tin hat Jerry , you're treading on 'sensitive' ground.
 

Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
People break into someones house and rob them at knifepoint - latest Deli Ali obviously.

Thousands robbed at knifepoint on the streets and hundreds killed. When we have a terrorism act or the death of an MP then all resources are chucked at tracking down the perpetrators.

This is a national disgrace but hardly anyone gives a f. We feel sorry for anyone dying from a virus but not the knife crime epidemic.
I don't think its right to say that no one gives a F but these crimes are notoriously difficult to solve. Problem with knife crime, especially in and around large cities, is that they are predominantly gang related (or mistaken identity as a result of gang activity). Because of this, local communities or potential witnesses are very wary of giving information to the Police, either for fear of reprisals or because they would rather "sort it" themselves, which of course, just starts the cycle off again.
Clearly not the only explanation but a very prominent one. I speak from experience of carrying out local enquiries after such an incident. The silence from local residents is deafening.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#4
I hope you've got a tin hat Jerry , you're treading on 'sensitive' ground.
I have been complaining about it for at least 6 years (MPs, media etc). In fact I was complaining when the yardees made an appearance in London (blair government so its not political), Jamaican police offered help to identify them, home office said no thanks wtf.

Edit:blair was gone in 2007 so a lot further back for the yardee stuff.
 
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Vambogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
The long gruelling recession we are tipping into will not help the life chances (or choices) of knife carrying criminals. Fraud, drug dealing, sex trafficking and all the other money based crimes will be keeping our police even busier than usual, I fear.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#6
I don't think its right to say that no one gives a F but these crimes are notoriously difficult to solve. Problem with knife crime, especially in and around large cities, is that they are predominantly gang related (or mistaken identity as a result of gang activity). Because of this, local communities or potential witnesses are very wary of giving information to the Police, either for fear of reprisals or because they would rather "sort it" themselves, which of course, just starts the cycle off again.
Clearly not the only explanation but a very prominent one. I speak from experience of carrying out local enquiries after such an incident. The silence from local residents is deafening.
I purposely said ‘hardly anyone’ and in real terms that is what I have found. I agree with everything you said there but it should have been tackled hard years ago and could have been tackled easier.
As usual the police are stuck in the middle and the media only make a noise for a short period if at all.

As a society can we allow murder on our streets to go unsolved - maybe we can :(
 

chris who

Vital 1st Team Regular
#7
My brother used to live near Finsbury park area of London. He moved to Welwyn garden city about 2 years ago now .There are places near Frinsbury park that are almost no go areas .He could walk through them as they knew him.And were almost certainly worried that they could be identified by him.But told me never to go that way alone.Being within a few minutes walk of a fairly major tube station .It was well known over many years where a person who has never been involved in gangs, drugs or crime .Knowing the streets that well that he knows crime is likely.Knowing it that well unfortunately shows that these places are also well known to the police too. But often are unable to deal with the under lying threats. To change it they are likely to need local people.A will of those in that community to change it . If the honest people living of the distant fringes of these areas are driven after out after 30 years as my brother finally was .In part by that threat to female members of his family then it is harder for the police or anyone else to change things. The areas themselves will just get bigger and worse as more people of that mind set will be drawn to those areas.
 
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Nobby_66

Vital 1st Team Regular
#8
I purposely said ‘hardly anyone’ and in real terms that is what I have found. I agree with everything you said there but it should have been tackled hard years ago and could have been tackled easier.
As usual the police are stuck in the middle and the media only make a noise for a short period if at all.

As a society can we allow murder on our streets to go unsolved - maybe we can :(
Agreed, problem back then though was that on top of the problems I mentioned, there was (rightly) a massive problem with mistrust towards the police from Black communities (let's not be nervous here, gangs in cities are predominantly made up of young black lads, that is fact not stereotype) because of the Lawrence murder and subsequent investigation. None of which was helped by the use of the phrase "institutional racism" which some of the public read as "Police officers are racist".
I was a late joiner in 1999 just after the McPherson report was published and I can honestly say The Met were already making massive strides towards trying to rectify this but its a long job which is still ongoing.
You're right, its a massive problem and what I think doesn't help (and is probably why people you speak to come across as if they don't care) is the sad fact that as its now so prevalent that it very rarely commands many column inches or minutes on the TV news. 😔
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#9
My brother used to live near Finsbury park area of London. He moved to Welwyn garden city about 2 years ago now .There are places near Frinsbury park that are almost no go areas .He could walk through them as they knew him.And were almost certainly worried that they could be identified by him.But told me never to go that way alone.Being within a few minutes walk of a fairly major tube station .It was well known over many years where a person who has never been involved in gangs, drugs or crime .Knowing the streets that well that he knows crime is likely.Knowing it that well unfortunately shows that these places are also well known to the police too. But often are unable to deal with the under lying threats. To change it they are likely to need local people.A will of those in that community to change it . If the honest people living of the distant fringes of these areas are driven after out after 30 years as my brother finally was .In part by that threat to female members of his family then it is harder for the police or anyone else to change things. The areas themselves will just get bigger and worse as more people of that mind set will be drawn to those areas.
Then the media and pressure groups should force our MPs into action. Do you think nothing would happen if the pressure was on the politicians to do something. Problem is that the media get tired of a story after a few days.

Different story of one of their own was dying in the street.
 

chris who

Vital 1st Team Regular
#10
I lived in London mainly the Forest Hill area of South London for about 15 years.I only ever got attacked once.It was on a late trip home from north London where my now wife lived in her parents flat .Two lads tried to mug me .It was raining I was trying to get a cab in the Crystal palace area .There was a direct bus from nearby the wife's home to within a few miles of the place I rented nearby.They asked me for the time.It was raining so I was covered up.They then grabbed me .Out of the corner of my eye I saw a bus .I was nowhere near a bus stop but I managed to put my arm out.I could not care less where it was going.That driver might have saved my life.The driver perhaps seeing my problem thankfully stopped against the rules the lads let me go as they knew i would have a good witness .To this day 30 years or so later I will never forget that driver a true samaritan and his divine intervention. I truly believe some people are sent to help us when we need them most .
Just to say these lads were white and English and I have no idea if they were on drugs or in a gang .
 
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Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#11
Agreed, problem back then though was that on top of the problems I mentioned, there was (rightly) a massive problem with mistrust towards the police from Black communities (let's not be nervous here, gangs in cities are predominantly made up of young black lads, that is fact not stereotype) because of the Lawrence murder and subsequent investigation. None of which was helped by the use of the phrase "institutional racism" which some of the public read as "Police officers are racist".
I was a late joiner in 1999 just after the McPherson report was published and I can honestly say The Met were already making massive strides towards trying to rectify this but its a long job which is still ongoing.
You're right, its a massive problem and what I think doesn't help (and is probably why people you speak to come across as if they don't care) is the sad fact that as its now so prevalent that it very rarely commands many column inches or minutes on the TV news. 😔
I agree with that and it never did get column inches.

The background issue of trust came about with the behaviour of police in the seventies. I hung around lambeth and south London and sadly the spg were the worst, picking up young black kids for no reason, stopping black people (including doctors lol) if they dared have a big car. I witnessed many of these events and it was not a good time and caused the brixton riots. My wife idolised the police until one Saturday in croydon whitgift a van load of police jumped out and waded into a group of punk rockers knocking her shopping all over the street.

Policing has improved immensely since those dark days and I believe that if the media and politicians set the agenda first that the law is even with everyone then the police will be able to do their job of saving lives.

For MPs it comes under the title of hard to do and we may have to make an effort, how many votes are in it’ plus the police and judiciary would need adequate recourses and visible support.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#12
People break into someones house and rob them at knifepoint - latest Deli Ali obviously.

Thousands robbed at knifepoint on the streets and hundreds killed. When we have a terrorism act or the death of an MP then all resources are chucked at tracking down the perpetrators.

This is a national disgrace but hardly anyone gives a f. We feel sorry for anyone dying from a virus but not the knife crime epidemic.
All unforeseen and unnecessary deaths are lamentable but I bet you the vast majority of knife crimes are carried out between those who carry the weapons as a matter of course. Whereas, deaths that have occurred as a consequence of the virus strike all regardless of background. I wonder what will be simpler to cure?
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
I lived in London mainly the Forest Hill area of South London for about 15 years.I only ever got attacked once.It was on a late trip home from north London where my now wife lived in her parents flat .Two lads tried to mug me .It was raining I was trying to get a cab in the Crystal palace area .There was a direct bus from nearby the wife's home to within a few miles of the place I rented nearby.They asked me for the time.It was raining so I was covered up.They then grabbed me .Out of the corner of my eye I saw a bus .I was nowhere near a bus stop but I managed to put my arm out.I could not care less where it was going.That driver might have saved my life.The driver perhaps seeing my problem thankfully stopped against the rules the lads let me go as they knew i would have a good witness .To this day 30 years or so later I will never forget that driver a true samaritan and his divine intervention. I truly believe some people are sent to help us when we need them most .
Just to say these lads were white and English and I have no idea if they were on drugs or in a gang .
Interesting story. As they say, there but for the grace of god, you never know what any day will bring.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#14
All unforeseen and unnecessary deaths are lamentable but I bet you the vast majority of knife crimes are carried out between those who carry the weapons as a matter of course. Whereas, deaths that have occurred as a consequence of the virus strike all regardless of background. I wonder what will be simpler to cure?
In a free society it includes the right of anybody to walk the streets without threat or hindrance or the risk of being a victim of crime.
We theoretically vote in any government to make sure that is the case.
 

chris who

Vital 1st Team Regular
#15
Then the media and pressure groups should force our MPs into action. Do you think nothing would happen if the pressure was on the politicians to do something. Problem is that the media get tired of a story after a few days.

Different story of one of their own was dying in the street.
The problem is proving crimes and identities. If for example my brother or a member of his family were attacked they might be able to identify the attacker. If I walked through the area against my brothers instructions I would have very little chance of doing that.These areas look for targets and it is hard for anyone to do anything within the law to stop these people.
 

Wayne.Kerr

Vital Champions League
#16
In a free society it includes the right of anybody to walk the streets without threat or hindrance or the risk of being a victim of crime.
We theoretically vote in any government to make sure that is the case.
True but it has been like that since the start of history predicated mainly on the basis of haves and have nots. That's what governments should sort out. Anyone who resorts to robbery is a case of after the horse has bolted.
 

Jerryattrick

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17
I don't think its right to say that no one gives a F but these crimes are notoriously difficult to solve. Problem with knife crime, especially in and around large cities, is that they are predominantly gang related (or mistaken identity as a result of gang activity). Because of this, local communities or potential witnesses are very wary of giving information to the Police, either for fear of reprisals or because they would rather "sort it" themselves, which of course, just starts the cycle off again.
Clearly not the only explanation but a very prominent one. I speak from experience of carrying out local enquiries after such an incident. The silence from local residents is deafening.
The ironic thing is that the same communities cannot wait to call the police if they are burgled etc.

Same as people demonstrating against other groups complain about the police actions but are then happy to have that protection when its the other way round. Once again 1970s and the events in Lewisham (inc battle of lewisham), brick lane and north London. Its a hard job for the police and on balance do a good job.
 

Gills 58

Vital 1st Team Regular
#18
I don't think its right to say that no one gives a F but these crimes are notoriously difficult to solve. Problem with knife crime, especially in and around large cities, is that they are predominantly gang related (or mistaken identity as a result of gang activity). Because of this, local communities or potential witnesses are very wary of giving information to the Police, either for fear of reprisals or because they would rather "sort it" themselves, which of course, just starts the cycle off again.
Clearly not the only explanation but a very prominent one. I speak from experience of carrying out local enquiries after such an incident. The silence from local residents is deafening.
Spot on Nobby, unfortunately. Exactly what my contact tells me.

She had to protect one (famous ) victim of a stabbing in ICU knowing that there was virtually no chance of the police being able to solve it knowing no one would be prepared to give evidence. The gangs would "sort it" between themselves later.
 

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#19
I lived in Deptford.
Didn’t like it so moved somewhere safer.
I left them to it
I moved to Kent.
Didn’t like the way it was going so moved somewhere safer
I left them to it
The solution is in your own hands