Kevin MacDonald | Page 7 | Vital Football

Kevin MacDonald

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Take cover! The snow’s starting to drift..........

I think you're starting to marginalise yourself on here now.

There are, I'm sure, 'old school' managers who can shout and bawl and intimidate as well as cajole and motivate and develop at the same time

And then there are bullies who will prey on the weaker players, pick on their insecurities and laugh about them with others and frighten and terrorise them with threats and physicality.
(I witnessed it myself on my UEFA B Course when the instructors gathered together to pick on a kid who knew no better because it was "fun " and it was "bants". He left the course in tears and didn't return.)

If you think the latter of the above 2 is okay then you may well be in a minority here and also out in the bigger world where more and more "snowflakes" are starting to stand up for themselves.

Working in a HR type environment, I've unfortunatley seen way way too many times the impact of bullies in the workplace; and the lines they nearly always come back with (just before we sack them) usually involves something around "those snowflakes, they should man-up a bit as it was just banter"


As JPA says above, you're usually a decent poster on here so not sure why you'd back KM and his processes seeing as the FA, an independent lawyer, the football club's current owners and many others who did not see it as 'banter'.
 
The ironic thing about bullies is that some of those bullied rationalise things by looking up to the them, particularly if they end up progressing. Others are simply destroyed. Those who go through our academy should have a future, whether it's in football or not. No place for bullying.
 
This is a symptom of the wider management team at the time. We should not be fixating on one individual without the full facts. A sporting environment is extremely elitest with huge egos to deal with. It is always easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise.
 
This is a symptom of the wider management team at the time. We should not be fixating on one individual without the full facts. A sporting environment is extremely elitest with huge egos to deal with. It is always easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise.
Be careful! You’re in danger of taking a sensible, balanced view. Good luck. To avoid being marginalised, this will be my last post but shall continue to follow and admire the recollections of Thomas Holte, when dinosaurs were free to roam the Earth.
God Bless All, VTID, SOTC - GP&U, News At Ten, Jurassic Park.
 
There is strong coaching, men being men, old school and so on. Then there are bullies. Massive difference. No idea how he was there that long, or how others got thrown under the bus but he remained teflon.

Hey ho, he's gone now, new broom and all that.
 
Be careful! You’re in danger of taking a sensible, balanced view. Good luck. To avoid being marginalised, this will be my last post but shall continue to follow and admire the recollections of Thomas Holte, when dinosaurs were free to roam the Earth.
God Bless All, VTID, SOTC - GP&U, News At Ten, Jurassic Park.

Guess you think belting a kid across the face with a meter stick for chewing gum in class is acceptable.
 
Guess you think belting a kid across the face with a meter stick for chewing gum in class is acceptable.

No it’s not but on the other hand it has gone too far the other way. My wife’s best friend has a son who is a fucking nightmare. His father has tried to discipline him and he calls social services and tells them that
Dad beat him. He was taken off his dad and lived with his mother then which is what he wanted because he engineered the entire thing. He’s got bored at his moms and decided to say the same about her. He walks out of school because he is slightly overweight And refuses to go back. Any action taken by the school he reports immediately to social services saying they are bullying him which has resulted in two teachers getting suspended but later cleared. Three of the schools will not have him back now. If the cane slipper and parents were still allowed to give a child punishment his situation would never have developed. Society needs to wake up and smell the coffee, young people Need punishing who are out of line to show them the correct way. Spare the rod spoil the child is a step too far but I would probably bring back national service
 
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No it’s not but on the other hand it has gone too far the other way. My wife’s best friend has a son who is a fucking nightmare. His father has tried to discipline him and he calls social services and tells them that
Dad beat him. He was taken off his dad and lived with his mother then which is what he wanted because he engineered the entire thing. He’s got bored at his moms and decided to say the same about her. He walks out of school because he is slightly overweight And refuses to go back. Any action taken by the school he reports immediately to social services saying they are bullying him which has resulted in two teachers getting suspended but later cleared. Three of the schools will not have him back now. If the cane slipper and parents were still allowed to give a child punishment his situation would never have developed. Society needs to wake up and smell the coffee, young people Need punishing who are out of line to show them the correct way. Spare the rod spoil the child is a step too far but I would probably bring back national service
The view that punishment of the nature described is acceptable is still around in pockets. But thankfully, the world has moved on and brutality has no place in homes or places of learning now.
I went to a school where canings were carried out on stage in front of the whole school by the Headmaster and there was a roll call by the Deputy Head of all boys who were reported or on detention. Brutality of the highest order and naming and shaming as ways to gain compliance did not work and thugs left that school after 6 years just the same as they entered it.
People like KMc have no place in our club and thankfully we have moved on and are building a culture where excellence can flourish and long term success has a chance.
 
The view that punishment of the nature described is acceptable is still around in pockets. But thankfully, the world has moved on and brutality has no place in homes or places of learning now.
I went to a school where canings were carried out on stage in front of the whole school by the Headmaster and there was a roll call by the Deputy Head of all boys who were reported or on detention. Brutality of the highest order and naming and shaming as ways to gain compliance did not work and thugs left that school after 6 years just the same as they entered it.
People like KMc have no place in our club and thankfully we have moved on and are building a culture where excellence can flourish and long term success has a chance.

You have no idea what this child is like and have not watched this deteriorate over the last 10 years. I was a little bugger but I had the cane a couple of times and it certainly stopped me mucking around because I did not want to have it again and I ended up building a company employing 60 people. I’m not saying extreme measures by any stretch but children do need putting in line as everybody will agree probably in 10 to 15 years time. As a parent myself I would never bring harm to my children and luckily they respect me. This is 1,000,000 miles from the McDonald’s situation I know but I’m just making a point.

When a child can play the system against its own parents/school for its own perceived gain then there is a massive problem in society and with the system.

Same with these 40 year old men who think they are 6 year old girls, want a bullet through the head not encouraging.

Mark my words it will go full circle to some degree,, it has to
 
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There's a way of being firm without being violent OVB. Bullies are bad news. Period. You can do an awful lot of damage to a young person growing up by violence or intimidation. Very often it's inadequacy or laziness on the part of the person doing the damage that's the problem; they don't have the means to do it any other way. Whatever, they need to be rooted out and sacked.
 
There's a way of being firm without being violent OVB. Bullies are bad news. Period. You can do an awful lot of damage to a young person growing up by violence or intimidation. Very often it's inadequacy or laziness on the part of the person doing the damage that's the problem; they don't have the means to do it any other way. Whatever, they need to be rooted out and sacked.

I agree 100% but firm will never cut it with some

There is little or no respect amongst many young people these days. The problem needs addressing
 
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Anyone else think this thread has run its course?

Head over to the Witton Lane forum for a discussion on things like corporal punishment and the erosion of the fabric of modern society.
 
Yes probably, plenty of other threads for snowflakes and manning up. we'll never all agree so let us agree to disagree.
I register a failure to agree with anyone anytime :yes::shake:
 
Anyone else think this thread has run its course?

Head over to the Witton Lane forum for a discussion on things like corporal punishment and the erosion of the fabric of modern society.


Funny enough. When I just saw this thread at the top of the page I thought why are we talking about this prick still.
 
Anyone else think this thread has run its course?

Head over to the Witton Lane forum for a discussion on things like corporal punishment and the erosion of the fabric of modern society.

If you do move it can you change my username to Corporal Punishment
 
No it’s not but on the other hand it has gone too far the other way. My wife’s best friend has a son who is a fucking nightmare. His father has tried to discipline him and he calls social services and tells them that
Dad beat him. He was taken off his dad and lived with his mother then which is what he wanted because he engineered the entire thing. He’s got bored at his moms and decided to say the same about her. He walks out of school because he is slightly overweight And refuses to go back. Any action taken by the school he reports immediately to social services saying they are bullying him which has resulted in two teachers getting suspended but later cleared. Three of the schools will not have him back now. If the cane slipper and parents were still allowed to give a child punishment his situation would never have developed. Society needs to wake up and smell the coffee, young people Need punishing who are out of line to show them the correct way. Spare the rod spoil the child is a step too far but I would probably bring back national service

I like to think of these things as a pendulum, things go to far one way and then they go too far the other way.

Still, I've never seen an incident of a child getting beaten which had any effect long term. I've been teaching for 16 years and never had call to beat a child. Your friends' child has some serious issues which require more than 'a good beating' to sort out.
 
I like to think of these things as a pendulum, things go to far one way and then they go too far the other way.

Still, I've never seen an incident of a child getting beaten which had any effect long term. I've been teaching for 16 years and never had call to beat a child. Your friends' child has some serious issues which require more than 'a good beating' to sort out.
I did not mean a good beating, more of a short sharp shock at the start if that makes sense. Once he worked out their is no real deterrent (in his eyes) to his actions and he could manipulate the situation because of it the real problems started. Believe me I do not ride around on a penny farthing or want to stick children in chimneys ( especially in homes with gas and electric fires) but honestly beleive he could have gone another way. As stated it work for me and taught me a life lesson, that and the discipline of boxing. I did suggest they get him down the gym but they thought it too brutal.

Do you think bringing back National Service would have a positive effect on society?
 
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I did not mean a good beating, more of a short sharp shock at the start if that makes sense. Once he worked out their is no real deterrent (in his eyes) to his actions and he could manipulate the situation because of it the real problems started. Believe me I do not ride around on a penny farthing or want to stick children in chimneys but honestly beleive he could have gone another way. As stated it work for me and taught me a life lesson, that and the discipline of boxing. I did suggest they get him down the gym but they thought it too brutal.

Do you think bringing back National Service would have a positive effect on society?

I know what you mean but it's impossible to draw the line in the right place. If you allow teachers to hit students, some of them are going to take it way too far. Personally, I'd leave it up to the parents but I know a few parents who took it way too far too.

They brought in national service here to deal with 'troubled' youths but it has been a fiasco. You can't just put troubled youths in so every teenager has to go but then the decent ones have exams and college so they shortened it to 3 months and then it's not long enough to do any proper army training so the entire purpose is unclear.

Honestly, of the kids I've seen who have had troubles, it's almost always because the parents are too old, too busy or too selfish to take care of their kids. They always want someone else to parent their kids. As teachers, we do what we can in the time we have with the kids but we are there to teach them how to read and write, not to help them emotionally.
 
I know what you mean but it's impossible to draw the line in the right place. If you allow teachers to hit students, some of them are going to take it way too far. Personally, I'd leave it up to the parents but I know a few parents who took it way too far too.

They brought in national service here to deal with 'troubled' youths but it has been a fiasco. You can't just put troubled youths in so every teenager has to go but then the decent ones have exams and college so they shortened it to 3 months and then it's not long enough to do any proper army training so the entire purpose is unclear.

Honestly, of the kids I've seen who have had troubles, it's almost always because the parents are too old, too busy or too selfish to take care of their kids. They always want someone else to parent their kids. As teachers, we do what we can in the time we have with the kids but we are there to teach them how to read and write, not to help them emotionally.


Are you in Norway
 
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