Keown; Jose's time's been and gone... | Page 2 | Vital Football

Keown; Jose's time's been and gone...

I think all Jose can do is take it on the chin. If he is planning in short phases (which he will be) then he must stick to his guns and continue. He got us within a point of 4th and we're now 4 points behind. It's about what happens next into the next short phase.

Firstly, we need the following players at a level of fitness that they can play with intensity for the entire 95 mins - Davies, Dier, Gedson, Ndombele, Lamela, Bergwijn etc fit that category. Can you imagine how Jose might set us up if he wasn't always planning his subs before the game even started?

Secondly, he needs to figure out what's going on with Dele Alli. You could tell after the Kane injury that his plan B was around utilising Dele in that central role. Not all game, but there were times when Dele pushed in and there were others where he played more the deeper number 10 role. It seemed like Jose was waiting for something to click and then the wheels came off in the last few days.

Thirdly, Jose needs to impress on his centre mids that they have to stop thinking for one and start playing as a unit. It's almost hit crisis point with Winks, Ndombele and Gio playing like complete strangers. It's like they are competing with each other rather than playing alongside each other. I'm convinced we'd look a different side if that part of the team started to function correctly. I'm also certain Jose is waiting for a breakthrough with them as well.

To Jose, he knows all these cheap shots by pundits that won't tale a managers role is just white noise. He needs to press on, and as I said above it's getting to the next phase of his plan quicker.

He needs more time.
 
I think all Jose can do is take it on the chin. If he is planning in short phases (which he will be) then he must stick to his guns and continue. He got us within a point of 4th and we're now 4 points behind. It's about what happens next into the next short phase.

Firstly, we need the following players at a level of fitness that they can play with intensity for the entire 95 mins - Davies, Dier, Gedson, Ndombele, Lamela, Bergwijn etc fit that category. Can you imagine how Jose might set us up if he wasn't always planning his subs before the game even started?

Secondly, he needs to figure out what's going on with Dele Alli. You could tell after the Kane injury that his plan B was around utilising Dele in that central role. Not all game, but there were times when Dele pushed in and there were others where he played more the deeper number 10 role. It seemed like Jose was waiting for something to click and then the wheels came off in the last few days.

Thirdly, Jose needs to impress on his centre mids that they have to stop thinking for one and start playing as a unit. It's almost hit crisis point with Winks, Ndombele and Gio playing like complete strangers. It's like they are competing with each other rather than playing alongside each other. I'm convinced we'd look a different side if that part of the team started to function correctly. I'm also certain Jose is waiting for a breakthrough with them as well.

To Jose, he knows all these cheap shots by pundits that won't tale a managers role is just white noise. He needs to press on, and as I said above it's getting to the next phase of his plan quicker.

He needs more time.

Our much-vaunted 4th was more to do with the fact that Chelsea's form was worse than ours and yet we were luckier (not that I'm complaining we were much overdue some luck) despite our performances being on the whole fairly unconvincing.

Nothing will change with Jose until he changes his defensive mindset prior to a game, not during or after.

The players need to have their abilities believed in, not questioned before they even start a game.
 
Our much-vaunted 4th was more to do with the fact that Chelsea's form was worse than ours and yet we were luckier (not that I'm complaining we were much overdue some luck) despite our performances being on the whole fairly unconvincing.

Nothing will change with Jose until he changes his defensive mindset prior to a game, not during or after.

The players need to have their abilities believed in, not questioned before they even start a game.
I don't think it's all down to Chelsea's form. We were 14th in the table when he arrived so we've overtaken a lot of other teams as well. Nonetheless our performances have been unconvincing. The last league match that we truly outplayed an opponent was Burnley at home (5-0) back in December.
 
Our much-vaunted 4th was more to do with the fact that Chelsea's form was worse than ours and yet we were luckier (not that I'm complaining we were much overdue some luck) despite our performances being on the whole fairly unconvincing.

Nothing will change with Jose until he changes his defensive mindset prior to a game, not during or after.

The players need to have their abilities believed in, not questioned before they even start a game.

As I've said before, there's more than Spurs and Chelsea in this race. I also said that this season probably goes the same way as last with every team snatching defeat in the race for CL. This week, Arteta, Santo and Ollie are the golden boys and Jose is the chump. Lamps is having a brief moment in the sun even though they were pretty poor themselves. Ancelotti's been undone whilst Wilder couldn't even beat Brighton at home, but that's OK because they're Sheff Utd. It will be different again every week until May.

I do believe Jose's defensive mindset comes from the picture he has in his head about fitness levels. Rather than ability, it's more about their stamina to collectively get through the 90 mins at PL intensity. Not that any of the press would report on the "proud of the players, proud of the effort" comments that he always leads with. I just hope Jose can get this lot fit without more casualties.

If there's one place I think the players are struggling with is forming a siege mentality required for these periods. Jose is teaching them all about that as I don't think it was part of Poch's mentality. Klopp, Pep etc all have that tool in the bag.
 
the way he sets up siege mentality is the only option as we're under siege from first minute even against bang average teams.

There is a better way to set up. Bring back "boring side to side tippy tappy football" as I'd rather that than our goal being under threat for 65 minutes every game.

Why we didn't buy a DM and a striker is beyond me.
 
the way he sets up siege mentality is the only option as we're under siege from first minute even against bang average teams.

There is a better way to set up. Bring back "boring side to side tippy tappy football" as I'd rather that than our goal being under threat for 65 minutes every game.

Why we didn't buy a DM and a striker is beyond me.

I meant more as in "everyone hates us, we don't care" attitude from the players. That's a foreign concept to anyone at Spurs. Has been for decades. We just still believe we're still that lovely underdog who is punching above our weight. It's not that long ago we had a charming young manager and a core of English players with a brand of entertaining football.

I doubt some even understand that having a brand new stadium is a massive reason for everyone to hate us. That's unfortunately human nature as is City or Chelsea being hated for having their billionaire chairmen. Belabouring the Hillsborough disaster is another example for that irrational hatred to Liverpool.

Jose used to turn adversity into a proper siege mentality with his clubs. Has he joined one that is too entitled to accept that principle? We are currently more of a "bottom lip" brigade than a "siege mentality". It's what we need though to get us through this.
 
Crooks told BBC’s Final Score: “He has people who can score goals. Moura can score goals. Dele Alli can score goals. They were both on the pitch against Chelsea.

“Let’s not kid ourselves. We cannot start feeling sorry for ourselves and thinking Spurs are beat before they even go onto the pitch because they haven’t got Kane or Son.

“That’s nonsense! They have got enough to score goals.”
 
What I would definitely admit is that Jose's wing back system was ultra defensive by the names he selected in which positions.

Tanganga, Sanchez, Toby, Jan, Davies (Jose's choice)
vs
Aurier, Tanganga, Toby, Sanchez, Davies (the more logical selection)

I can imagine getting a slightly better outcome from the back line if we had the pace and power of Sanchez and Tanganga either side of Toby. Tanganga looked like a fish out of water at RWB whilst Davies and Jan together looked so weak and slow.

I'm not against Jose using this system again but hope he picks the more logical line-up next time around. You have to get the wing-backs over the half way line for this system to work.
 
I meant more as in "everyone hates us, we don't care" attitude from the players. That's a foreign concept to anyone at Spurs. Has been for decades. We just still believe we're still that lovely underdog who is punching above our weight. It's not that long ago we had a charming young manager and a core of English players with a brand of entertaining football.

I doubt some even understand that having a brand new stadium is a massive reason for everyone to hate us. That's unfortunately human nature as is City or Chelsea being hated for having their billionaire chairmen. Belabouring the Hillsborough disaster is another example for that irrational hatred to Liverpool.

Jose used to turn adversity into a proper siege mentality with his clubs. Has he joined one that is too entitled to accept that principle? We are currently more of a "bottom lip" brigade than a "siege mentality". It's what we need though to get us through this.

Oh I knew what you meant... was just a bit of wordplay.

I also think Jose's siege mentality thing is played out.

Considering he's supposed to have learned from his past mistakes he appears to just be trying to do a carbon copy of his previous teams set ups, but without the personnel to pull off bus park 101 effectively...

But as everyone will tell you he's an intelligent man so I can only hope that he adapts to what he actually has rather than continually complaining about what he's missing.
 
Jose's first question post match from a journ was.....do you have any complaints about the result....he answered ....NO. He went on to say he has no complaints about his players. He criticised the schedule of 2 days between each of 3 games caused by the tv companies.
There are a number of players who played all 3 games. It's no surprise there may have been tired legs out there.
 
Not a lot had changed since before Jose took over , and he was happy with the squad then .
He lost Davies , sissoko and son to injury but that can’t be seen to be an excuse . He could , anybody could, have reasonably expected injuries and he knew the limitations of the squad he was happy with . How is it now , he is not happy with the players at his disposal .
He needs to take a leaf out of the great Danny Blanchflowers book . When he was asked how his Northern Ireland side coped so well In adversity , he replied to the journo “ it’s simple really , we just equalise before the other team score “
 
Not a lot had changed since before Jose took over , and he was happy with the squad then .
He lost Davies , sissoko and son to injury but that can’t be seen to be an excuse . He could , anybody could, have reasonably expected injuries and he knew the limitations of the squad he was happy with . How is it now , he is not happy with the players at his disposal .
He needs to take a leaf out of the great Danny Blanchflowers book . When he was asked how his Northern Ireland side coped so well In adversity , he replied to the journo “ it’s simple really , we just equalise before the other team score “
To be fair Walt, he was happy with the squad because he had Kane and Son and we scored loads of goals...not sure when Sissoko disappeared but another significant loss...Davies was just a distraction.
 
Not a lot had changed since before Jose took over , and he was happy with the squad then .
He lost Davies , sissoko and son to injury but that can’t be seen to be an excuse . He could , anybody could, have reasonably expected injuries and he knew the limitations of the squad he was happy with . How is it now , he is not happy with the players at his disposal .
He needs to take a leaf out of the great Danny Blanchflowers book . When he was asked how his Northern Ireland side coped so well In adversity , he replied to the journo “ it’s simple really , we just equalise before the other team score “

I'm told he had a full-on strop when we failed to get a striker in January - It sounded unlikely to me at the time, (but did make me believe he wouldn't last past the end of the season with us) but his constant repetition of how badly things are and how he can't come up with any solution leads weight to the current talk doing the rounds that he's doing it to teach the club/Levy a lesson about not giving him what/who he wants when he wants it.
 
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To be fair Walt, he was happy with the squad because he had Kane and Son and we scored loads of goals...not sure when Sissoko disappeared but another significant loss...Davies was just a distraction.
I had it in my head that Kane was already out when he arrived Harry . But I'm wrong on that , sorry . It was Lloris that was out . I knew it was one of our captains ! Ha ha .
 
Lamela has 16 league goals in 6 years

Not really a goal threat

Only due to the role he has been playing...and game time has been very low.

You can'y deny he is a creator, and when played effectively, Erik can change the game. Jose now has a defeatist attitude, which will all but kill off any enthusiasm that our players need to rise above this.

Expressive players like Lamela need a coach that understands how best to use their talents. Jose has absolutely no idea how best to use the majority of our players, let alone Lamela.

How very sad.
 
Only due to the role he has been playing...and game time has been very low.

You can'y deny he is a creator, and when played effectively, Erik can change the game. Jose now has a defeatist attitude, which will all but kill off any enthusiasm that our players need to rise above this.

Expressive players like Lamela need a coach that understands how best to use their talents. Jose has absolutely no idea how best to use the majority of our players, let alone Lamela.

How very sad.



Lamela is a terrible finisher mate, I posted recently how he gets in some really good positions but generally scuffs his shot.
 
Lamela is a terrible finisher mate, I posted recently how he gets in some really good positions but generally scuffs his shot.

Big Chiv, as an ex striker, I know that poor finishing comes with lack of game time/confidence. Nothing can replicate the moment or second you have in front of goal during match conditions in front of 40,000+

Give Lamela game time, and more opportunities and he'll prove to be a decent finisher. He has the skills...we've seen them. He just needs the confidence, which comes with game time. And not just 10 min cameos.
 
Big Chiv, as an ex striker, I know that poor finishing comes with lack of game time/confidence. Nothing can replicate the moment or second you have in front of goal during match conditions in front of 40,000+

Give Lamela game time, and more opportunities and he'll prove to be a decent finisher. He has the skills...we've seen them. He just needs the confidence, which comes with game time. And not just 10 min cameos.

Give Lamela more than 10 minutes and he will get injured, again and again. It's a pointless subject the evidence is there.
 
Lamela is also half the player when he is playing centrally. He needs to operate in the wider channels where there is more space.
 
Ripping into their display at Stamford Bridge as they lost their second game in a matter of days, Sherwood told Premier League Productions: “Tottenham were absolutely disgusting.


“They were so bad. The negative approach. Yes they have injuries to Son and to Kane, Mourinho keeps reminding us of that.


“But they’ve got [Steven] Bergwijn there who can run in behind, they’ve got [Lucas] Moura who has pace. If they’ve got anything they’ve got pace. They both got 15 goals last season which is not the end of the world.


“You have to find a different way. As a coach sometimes you can’t say ‘oh we don’t have a striker’ and throw the towel in.


“If you said to Jose beforehand: ‘Would you take a 0-0?’ he would have taken your arms off. It’s not about that, it’s a London derby! It’s for all of those fans, you need to show more of an attacking intent.”