Jose Mourinho | Page 54 | Vital Football

Jose Mourinho

Walthamstow wanderer

Vital 1st Team Regular
Whilst accepting that we have weaknesses which have to be fixed if we are to get back to anywhere the top four, is the squad we have really weaker in terms of ability than Shef Utd, Wolves or Burnley, all of whom are likely to finish above us. I don't think so, and that for me says that Mourinho is not capable of getting the best out of his squad, either through lack of motivation, or tactical approach, probably a combination of both. If the player power argument is valid, it doesn't alter the fact that he's not the right man for the job, because he clearly is a significant part of the problem. My argument is somewhat negated insofar as we will in all probability lose some of our best players shortly, and will no longer have a stronger squad than the teams mentioned. That being the case, Mourinho is not the manager imo to rebuild a squad on a limited transfer budget, and a requirement to bring out the full potential in academy players.
Has Mourinho ever built a squad . Sure he has bought a lot of stars and put them in the same team where they couldn’t fail to play well , but I see that as something different as building a squad . He was waxing lyrical about the squad when he joined us , but hasn’t done anything with it , we didn’t even get the new manager bounce every other team gets . We had a mini rebound when we hung on to beat the spammers , but after that ?
I know I’m in danger of joining the sack the manager brigade , I know the sensible thing is to give him time , but I just want to see some glimmer that he can be the one .
 
I think the 2015/16 and 2016/17 team was better than anything Redknapp produced. We were a team from front to back under Poch. We scored more goals. Conceded less. And accumulated far more points. Poch also had us competing in the cups simultaneously.
Oh I agree the Poch teams were better but I just think from an entertainment side some of the football I saw under Harry was great.
 
Whatever about Jose's 'failings' as a manager of producing attractive, attacking football, if he can't organise a team then that tells you a lot about the players.

Since he's been here I think he's been trying to make us defensively more solid. You can't expect our forwards to have to score 3 or 4 goals to win every game. And in the first two games after the lockdown there were signs that he was succeeding. Had we scored first against Sheffield I think we would have won at a canter and this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place.

It's in his DNA to build from the back. And at this stage I would sacrifice flair for a team that wins even if it's not pretty. He knows he has a lot of attacking potential at his disposal. If he gets the building blocks in place he can loosen the reins on our forwards.

When Poch was sacked Jose wouldn't have been my first choice. He wouldn't have even been in my top 5. But I do think he can change the mentality of not just the players but the club. I would give him at least another season to get a few players in and put his ideas into practice. If there's no discernible improvement a year on then we have to move on. But the idea that there's a stream of managers out there at present who can come and transform this squad, I think is fanciful.
Fair enough I just don't see the point in him staying after this season. I haven't seen anything special from him. Just an average return. I can't see things improving.

I don't think asking for our squad to be organized and play some decent football is too much to ask for actually. The squad is average but it still has some talent in it.

Even Fat Sam gets his teams well drilled and organized within a few games. They are basics and Jose has delivered neither.
 
Has Mourinho ever built a squad . Sure he has bought a lot of stars and put them in the same team where they couldn’t fail to play well , but I see that as something different as building a squad . He was waxing lyrical about the squad when he joined us , but hasn’t done anything with it , we didn’t even get the new manager bounce every other team gets . We had a mini rebound when we hung on to beat the spammers , but after that ?
I know I’m in danger of joining the sack the manager brigade , I know the sensible thing is to give him time , but I just want to see some glimmer that he can be the one .
He hasn't 'built' a team like Poch but then he's never had to. That's not to say he isn't capable though. But it's the defence primarily that needs rebuilding not the whole squad. And I'm sure that's something he could do.

Nonetheless, there seems to be such a groundswell of feeling against him both from within and without the club, it wouldn't surprise to me to see him gone at the end of the season. Levy isn't known for standing firm against backlashes to his managers.
 
Fair enough I just don't see the point in him staying after this season. I haven't seen anything special from him. Just an average return. I can't see things improving.

I don't think asking for our squad to be organized and play some decent football is too much to ask for actually. The squad is average but it still has some talent in it.

Even Fat Sam gets his teams well drilled and organized within a few games. They are basics and Jose has delivered neither.
Here's the problem though. Fat Sam couldn't get anything out of this squad either because it is the players and the culture that are the bigger problem. Even if some of them have some Spurs blood in them, not a single one of them want to succeed for Levy or the culture he has in his organisation. You can just tell that.

Levy hasn't looked across at the other clubs and gone about building a true leadership structure of success. He is still living in the last millennium where he is the command and controller and has a bunch of finance folks around him on he board to "run" the club. He is Ken Bates MkII. He then empowers one man, the manager, and comfortably blames him and sacks him every time it goes wrong. He's teflon.

Then go and look at Liverpool and you figure out very quickly their setup is nothing like that. It's 6 or 7 guys in different leadership positions getting everything in place for their manager Klopp. It's a squad that believes in the project and a bunch of kids that want to be part of it. It's not about the chairman or the manager. It's about everyone involved in the setup and there is no denial or lip service. Just honesty with each other like we saw at Sheff Utd.

It's so obvious to me that we'll just keep going through these cycles until Levy fixes some very fundamental cultural things at the club and about himself as a leader. He is a massive root cause, regardless of what the spreadsheet says.
 

USAFSPURS

Vital Champions League
I am on the side of wanting to give Jose a whole season and not starting out in such a shit state that we were in...if anyone remembers! (Poch had us on a one way trip to the Championship) We stabilized, but we all new that our team was stagnate and not a team to challenge for really anything...or at least I did! Jose needs time to overhaul this squad.

Honestly I have no idea what he can do...we simply don't have the players to get anything done. We just need to get this season over with.

We have too many underachieving players or some that are past their prime and better off as bench players to provide depth. Was going to list out the players...but it is too damn depressing...we are WAY imbalanced on quality. (too little)
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
Here's the problem though. Fat Sam couldn't get anything out of this squad either because it is the players and the culture that are the bigger problem. Even if some of them have some Spurs blood in them, not a single one of them want to succeed for Levy or the culture he has in his organisation. You can just tell that.

Levy hasn't looked across at the other clubs and gone about building a true leadership structure of success. He is still living in the last millennium where he is the command and controller and has a bunch of finance folks around him on he board to "run" the club. He is Ken Bates MkII. He then empowers one man, the manager, and comfortably blames him and sacks him every time it goes wrong. He's teflon.

Then go and look at Liverpool and you figure out very quickly their setup is nothing like that. It's 6 or 7 guys in different leadership positions getting everything in place for their manager Klopp. It's a squad that believes in the project and a bunch of kids that want to be part of it. It's not about the chairman or the manager. It's about everyone involved in the setup and there is no denial or lip service. Just honesty with each other like we saw at Sheff Utd.

It's so obvious to me that we'll just keep going through these cycles until Levy fixes some very fundamental cultural things at the club and about himself as a leader. He is a massive root cause, regardless of what the spreadsheet says.
Yup, many of us have been saying Levy is the problem for the last 15 years or so but the owners could care less about the football team...his bonuses are all fixed around delivering building sites for other real estate as well as the stadium to make the club appear attractive for a final sale, but his ego won’t let go and no one can make him...maybe relegation might work.
 
It’s amazing how the manager always becomes the fall guy when the one common denominator behind our 20+ years of footballing failure is Levy....but like all dictators, no dissent is tolerated.
I've said many times, if he worked for me, he'd sacked for his failing by now, but I'd also pay him off handsomely for the financial management and growth of our income; I was really looking forward to our new much higher revenue streams being invested into the playing side and us building on Poch's successes - but now, sadly 'events' have conspired to make sure that until we are bought, that cannot happen.

And for those who dislike Levy and the way he's built his vision of a sustainable future, you can be sure that the club is now unlikely to continue under his stewardship for too much longer..perhaps a season or two now.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
Quite a subdued Jose for his press conference pre Everton. Understandably he is upset at our performance against Sheffield but he said he is hurting inside. I hope he realises he has to beef up our MF and remove an attacker at least to start against Everton.
Maybe we need to replace Aurier also, even though we have no other RB. He is there primarily to cross balls into the opponents box and it seems he cant do that !
 

steveperryman

Vital Champions League
Quite a subdued Jose for his press conference pre Everton. Understandably he is upset at our performance against Sheffield but he said he is hurting inside. I hope he realises he has to beef up our MF and remove an attacker at least to start against Everton.
Maybe we need to replace Aurier also, even though we have no other RB. He is there primarily to cross balls into the opponents box and it seems he cant do that !
Aurier's performances are like a yo-yo, constantly up & down & pretty much all over the place.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Reserves Team
Quite a subdued Jose for his press conference pre Everton. Understandably he is upset at our performance against Sheffield but he said he is hurting inside. I hope he realises he has to beef up our MF and remove an attacker at least to start against Everton.
Maybe we need to replace Aurier also, even though we have no other RB. He is there primarily to cross balls into the opponents box and it seems he cant do that !
When I saw the headline 'Jose says that finishing outside the top six won't be the end of the world', my first thought was here we go again, Mourinho making his excuses for the rest of the season. Actually he puts forward quite a rationale and reasoned analysis. For me however there is no way that failure to qualify for either European competition can be interpreted as a positive.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
I've said many times, if he worked for me, he'd sacked for his failing by now, but I'd also pay him off handsomely for the financial management and growth of our income; I was really looking forward to our new much higher revenue streams being invested into the playing side and us building on Poch's successes - but now, sadly 'events' have conspired to make sure that until we are bought, that cannot happen.

And for those who dislike Levy and the way he's built his vision of a sustainable future, you can be sure that the club is now unlikely to continue under his stewardship for too much longer..perhaps a season or two now.
That’s good news as long as who follows are sports people and not more financial parasites.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
When I saw the headline 'Jose says that finishing outside the top six won't be the end of the world', my first thought was here we go again, Mourinho making his excuses for the rest of the season. Actually he puts forward quite a rationale and reasoned analysis. For me however there is no way that failure to qualify for either European competition can be interpreted as a positive.
There are pros and cons but from the playing point of view next season we would benefit from no Europa League disruption...our squad will likely be inadequate for all the extra games and we should benefit from more time on the training pitch.
 
Excuse the long post - just joined :)

I’m a big Jose fan and when I heard his appointment I was very excited at the prospect of what he could bring. He probably thought that with the attacking talent currently here, he’d only need to tweak what was behind them.

But most likely to his surprise, he didn’t realise how tough a job it was going to be to get us defending well – nor how weak the player’s mentality is.

I don’t believe those who think he is too outdated to succeed. I re-saw his Inter team play Pep’s Barca in the ECL when they won 3-1 who play exactly the same way today – and Inter exposed them on the counter time and time again. And it wasn’t dull – it was extremely exciting to watch his plan come together perfectly.

But how many of our players would get into that Inter XI today? Only Harry Kane – but even at that particular moment Diego Milito was world-class.

At the moment we are improving defensively in a lower-block scenario. It was definitely evident against Man United. An incorrect VAR decision cost us the 3 points. And we had a good degree of control against West Ham. I think this is definitely something he’s been working on.

But the new partnership at the back, and not so frequently playing in a match where we have 70% possession of the ball, in this completely different scenario where the team needs to get back quickly, together and know how to defend this situation – this clearly either hasn’t been worked on, or the players aren’t capable of handling this situation. I think this is the later, as Sheffield most certainly exposed this time and time again, and our defence looked clueless – add in the weak mentality made it that much harder…

I think facing what the players had to the other day was a good thing with the dodgy calls – it teaches Mourinho more about the profile of his players. Who has the composure, who will he potentially be able to trust, who is worth working on to become an important first team player, or who needs to be shipped immediately.

But what may become more evident, is whether Jose will get the time that he needs. He knows how to win – even with a Chris Smalling and Phil Jones defensive partnership at the back.

But changing the style and mentality from such an offensive possession based game utilised for years, to a patient swift counter-attacking side isn’t going to be a quick thing. And will those players now playing this style have the attributes to competently carry it out? Decision making is abolutely key in the final third on the break – and that has still been lacking. We should have scored 6 or so against West Ham. No one would complain about the defensive football then.

I think at this point in his career, I do think Jose will want a more prolonged stay than his previous clubs, and most likely recognised this by taking on the job. But he needs everyone’s backing, and in the current modern day, I sadly feel he’s not going to get that time, or have the self patience to oversee a project that would appear to be a lot longer than he might have potentially expected.

I believe a lot of personnel change is needed immediately. A safe keeper between the sticks with Julio Cesar, a quick Lucio and physical Samuel combo in the CB slots that can handle different defensive situations, a Maicon and Zanetti for the wing backs and Cambiasso a solid DM in the middle.

And with his style of football, it’s key to have a creative player and set piece specialist. Inter had Sneijder, and we are severely lacking in this at the moment. I think Lo Celso may be better served as a centre mid that can bring the ball out into the central and final third, being a deeper creative outlet.

Like Klopp’s and Pep’s squads, they are all designed to play to their main game-plan and have already had a base squad, and the time / money to complete it. Mourinho’s way works…but in the modern day, it is a lot harder to find players to fill his roles, especially as players feel they are bigger than the club and manager – which increases the chances of falling out with players, which could easily happen if a lot of the players don’t want to play a more patient counter attacking style of game.

I would say this is where football progressing has got the better of Jose – player attitudes and being able to get away with it.
 

Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
There are pros and cons but from the playing point of view next season we would benefit from no Europa League disruption...our squad will likely be inadequate for all the extra games and we should benefit from more time on the training pitch.

I honestly believe that missing out on European football will damage us immensely.I don't think Jose is a big enough draw anymore to bring in top players we would need to get European football the season after.Plus look what's happened since the restart.Jose has had plenty of time on the training pitch and we are looking worse than ever.I have said this before but I am even more certain now.Jose is not the man to take us forward.After this week I think he may have lost more of the dressing room.He again never took any blame on Thursday just blamed the players for lacking mental strength.Now that may be true but do it behind closed doors and not in public.The buck stops with him.I thought we played better after the disallowed goal but were crap straight after his team talk.
 
I see it as a house that has startled to crumble and in need of wholescale repair.

Three years ago we had arguably the two best full backs in the country in Walker and Rose. Neither have been replaced. We had one of the best keepers but he's on the wane. Toby was probably the best CB in the country and Jan not far behind. Neither has been replaced although Tanga may fill one of those roles one day. Eriksen has gone. Lo Celso and Ndombele may replace him but they're not there yet. Dembele has gone and we have nothing remotely comparable to replace him. Kane is a shadow of his former self and I doubt if we'll ever see the form we saw three years ago again. Ditto Dele.

That's a lot of infrastructure that needs replacing to restore it to its former glory.
Like you say, it needed repair, NOT demolition! Jose is not going to keep anything Poch built. Totally different managers with totally different styles and ideas.

It is totally irrelevant now because the decision has been made and Levy opted for demolition. With or without Mourinho, a chance of silverware within the next 5-7y ears has gone bar a lucky run in a domestic cup. Mourinho won't get the backing he needs to rebuild the squad in his image and the jury is out on whether he will want to stick around long enough to reach that point anyway.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
I honestly believe that missing out on European football will damage us immensely.I don't think Jose is a big enough draw anymore to bring in top players we would need to get European football the season after.Plus look what's happened since the restart.Jose has had plenty of time on the training pitch and we are looking worse than ever.I have said this before but I am even more certain now.Jose is not the man to take us forward.After this week I think he may have lost more of the dressing room.He again never took any blame on Thursday just blamed the players for lacking mental strength.Now that may be true but do it behind closed doors and not in public.The buck stops with him.I thought we played better after the disallowed goal but were crap straight after his team talk.
For several seasons we were in the CL and still didn’t attract high calibre players or weren’t prepared to pay for them.....being in the Europa League won’t change that....we need men in our team and unfortunately we have too many boys.
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
Having watched a display of the modern tactical football between Wol es and Arsenal this afternoon it was like watching a set of headless chickens running around...hundreds of 15 yard passes backwards, sideways, forward, backwards...loads of foul tackles not punished by the referee. dozens of very bad crosses until Arsenal got their usual piece of luck when one of the bad crosses clipped a defender and bounced into the path of one of Arsenal’s strikers who scored well.

it was about as exciting as counting red cars on the motorway...I’d be quite happy if we could defend against this style and then play 2 or 3 slick passes to score goals....I guess we’ll find out when the Arsenal Olympic running squad come to Fawlty Towers.
 

Critical_Spur

Vital Squad Member
Excuse the long post - just joined :)

I’m a big Jose fan and when I heard his appointment I was very excited at the prospect of what he could bring. He probably thought that with the attacking talent currently here, he’d only need to tweak what was behind them.

But most likely to his surprise, he didn’t realise how tough a job it was going to be to get us defending well – nor how weak the player’s mentality is.

I don’t believe those who think he is too outdated to succeed. I re-saw his Inter team play Pep’s Barca in the ECL when they won 3-1 who play exactly the same way today – and Inter exposed them on the counter time and time again. And it wasn’t dull – it was extremely exciting to watch his plan come together perfectly.

But how many of our players would get into that Inter XI today? Only Harry Kane – but even at that particular moment Diego Milito was world-class.

At the moment we are improving defensively in a lower-block scenario. It was definitely evident against Man United. An incorrect VAR decision cost us the 3 points. And we had a good degree of control against West Ham. I think this is definitely something he’s been working on.

But the new partnership at the back, and not so frequently playing in a match where we have 70% possession of the ball, in this completely different scenario where the team needs to get back quickly, together and know how to defend this situation – this clearly either hasn’t been worked on, or the players aren’t capable of handling this situation. I think this is the later, as Sheffield most certainly exposed this time and time again, and our defence looked clueless – add in the weak mentality made it that much harder…

I think facing what the players had to the other day was a good thing with the dodgy calls – it teaches Mourinho more about the profile of his players. Who has the composure, who will he potentially be able to trust, who is worth working on to become an important first team player, or who needs to be shipped immediately.

But what may become more evident, is whether Jose will get the time that he needs. He knows how to win – even with a Chris Smalling and Phil Jones defensive partnership at the back.

But changing the style and mentality from such an offensive possession based game utilised for years, to a patient swift counter-attacking side isn’t going to be a quick thing. And will those players now playing this style have the attributes to competently carry it out? Decision making is abolutely key in the final third on the break – and that has still been lacking. We should have scored 6 or so against West Ham. No one would complain about the defensive football then.

I think at this point in his career, I do think Jose will want a more prolonged stay than his previous clubs, and most likely recognised this by taking on the job. But he needs everyone’s backing, and in the current modern day, I sadly feel he’s not going to get that time, or have the self patience to oversee a project that would appear to be a lot longer than he might have potentially expected.

I believe a lot of personnel change is needed immediately. A safe keeper between the sticks with Julio Cesar, a quick Lucio and physical Samuel combo in the CB slots that can handle different defensive situations, a Maicon and Zanetti for the wing backs and Cambiasso a solid DM in the middle.

And with his style of football, it’s key to have a creative player and set piece specialist. Inter had Sneijder, and we are severely lacking in this at the moment. I think Lo Celso may be better served as a centre mid that can bring the ball out into the central and final third, being a deeper creative outlet.

Like Klopp’s and Pep’s squads, they are all designed to play to their main game-plan and have already had a base squad, and the time / money to complete it. Mourinho’s way works…but in the modern day, it is a lot harder to find players to fill his roles, especially as players feel they are bigger than the club and manager – which increases the chances of falling out with players, which could easily happen if a lot of the players don’t want to play a more patient counter attacking style of game.

I would say this is where football progressing has got the better of Jose – player attitudes and being able to get away with it.
Welcome 83.