Jose Mourinho | Page 53 | Vital Football

Jose Mourinho

Agree with most of this, which largely emphasises the fact that we are a shambles. As you rightly point out, Mourinho has had a lot of time recently, something that he claimed not to have had pre lock down, to work with the team collectively and individually in order to install the disciplines, organisation and tactical expertise that he is famous for. He has failed at Spurs on all counts.
Mourinho will always divide, the level of controversy he generates increases annually, as the performances of him and his teams steadily decline.
Even now there is probably pretty much a fifty fifty split between fans who are increasingly convinced that his appointment was a mistake, and those who believe that we will come right under him.
My view, although I can understand the alternative view if not agreeing with it, is that it will be a huge gamble to give him a closed season with such transfer kitty as may be available, only to find that nothing changes and we need to get rid of him by the end of the year. We have to write this season off, but need to recover to being at the very least a top six Club, and we need to do that next season.
The fact that transfer kitty is likely to be negligible makes it far less of a financial risk, I think, to give Jose another year. Any manager needs more than six months to be properly assessed.

The thing is if we hire someone else I'm pretty sure they'll identify the same areas that need upgrading as Jose does. If we were to get a decent RB, an upgrade on Davies and a proper DM, we'd immediately see a significant uplift in performances. There are other areas of course that need improving but we have plenty of attacking quality in the squad (assuming Kane and Son regain their fitness and form).

I'd give Jose another year. If he can get the defensive players in that he wants I think we'll see a different team. If he fails after that then so be it, he has to go.
 
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Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
What I cannot get is levy does not pay big wages for players.Yet he pays Jose is payed 2nd highest manager in the Premier League.Why does he pay money for so called top manager but not to attract top players
 

steveperryman

Vital Champions League
If the players are in get rid of the manager mode, that is exactly how they were with Poch...to my mind if true it just shows that there is a bad element amongst the players that still resides from the Poch era.

it’s interesting that this info comes from one player’s agent and hence could well be politicised to put it politely.

I have been solidly behind Jose but after a lengthy break when ideas could be communicated in spite of the Covid restrictions, where time on the training pitch has been plentiful for an experienced manager to drill his players, to see the resultant team selection and performance last night says that he is failing on all fronts...motivation, selection and tactics...and his stubbornness tegarding certain players is unbelievable..

The best organised team he has put out was against Utd, at least for 60 minutes or so...he hasn’t selected the same team since....a blind man could see that Aurier is absolutely hopeless and Davies not much better...we have Sess apparently suffering a crisis of confidence and needs games, we must have Skipp, Cirkin and Verts who must be better bets than those two.

Then there is the MF crowd...LoCo,Winks,Sissoko,Alli,Lamela,ND....are they supposed to play as a two, three or four and then the strikers...Kane, Son, Berg and Moura...do any of them understand their roles...do they even practice linking up, moving off the ball etc.

In short, we are a shambles, lacking players with character and lacking any visible signs of tactical improvement....

A clear out needs to happen but is problematical given our debt mountain and as has been said at the time of Poch’s departure, it’s cheaper to replace one man than a squad although the consequences may well be more expensive in the longer term.
What we need is for the players to knuckle down & do their job. This namby-pamby approach is embarrassing, both for them & the fanbase. If the players aren't up to it & there are a few question marks over a handful of them already, i'd be inclined to start dropping them. I'm done with defending players who have the talent but lack the character & awareness in order to improve themselves.

Back in the day i despised Cashley, Lamps & Terry but you know what, not one single player from this squad could hold a candle to any of them atm.
 

Spurs1569

Vital Youth Team
Does anybody think like me.I think it's more the players do not believe in the way Jose wants them to play.Or is it they have just for some reason stopped working this season and some of last
 
The fact that transfer kitty is likely to be negligible makes it far less of a financial risk, I think, to give Jose another year. Any manager needs more than six months to be properly assessed.

The thing is if we hire someone else I'm pretty sure they'll identify the same areas that need upgrading as Jose does. If we were to get a decent RB, an upgrade on Davies and a proper DM, we'd immediately see a significant uplift in performances. There are other areas of course that need improving but we have plenty of attacking quality in the squad (assuming Kane and Son regain their fitness and form).

I'd give Jose another year. If he can get the defensive players in that he wants I think we'll see a different team. If he fails after that then so be it, he has to go.
As always, the voice of reason. Totally agree that Jose should be given that opportunity to fix this mess. Pandering to those spoilt bunch of brats and their agents and letting them have a third manager to not play for is utter madness.

There is no manager in the world that can walk into our club and immediately deal with the current player power. It's been a build up over 3 years and now some players clearly think it is acceptable. You could tell that culture when Kane just told everyone else that he was taking that free-kick last night. A newbie like Gio's face was an absolute picture.

So knowing that the culture in the club comes from Levy, we might as well keep a bad ass like Jose and let him take his time to work through it. He needs to remove the guys without football brains and needs to either fix or remove the attitude issues with some of the others. It's the toughest job in football.
 
Personally I dont think it matters if we stick with Mourinho or boot him. The damage is done and cemented.

If you think of Poch's entire time with us as the building of a house, the logical progression after sacking Poch is to find someone who can build a suitable extension to the house, because it was a great house but just needed some improvements.

Instead Levy hired someone who wants to knock down the entire house Poch built because he doesn't like the architectural style.
 
Personally I dont think it matters if we stick with Mourinho or boot him. The damage is done and cemented.

If you think of Poch's entire time with us as the building of a house, the logical progression after sacking Poch is to find someone who can build a suitable extension to the house, because it was a great house but just needed some improvements.

Instead Levy hired someone who wants to knock down the entire house Poch built because he doesn't like the architectural style.
I see it as a house that has startled to crumble and in need of wholescale repair.

Three years ago we had arguably the two best full backs in the country in Walker and Rose. Neither have been replaced. We had one of the best keepers but he's on the wane. Toby was probably the best CB in the country and Jan not far behind. Neither has been replaced although Tanga may fill one of those roles one day. Eriksen has gone. Lo Celso and Ndombele may replace him but they're not there yet. Dembele has gone and we have nothing remotely comparable to replace him. Kane is a shadow of his former self and I doubt if we'll ever see the form we saw three years ago again. Ditto Dele.

That's a lot of infrastructure that needs replacing to restore it to its former glory.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Reserves Team
Whilst accepting that we have weaknesses which have to be fixed if we are to get back to anywhere the top four, is the squad we have really weaker in terms of ability than Shef Utd, Wolves or Burnley, all of whom are likely to finish above us. I don't think so, and that for me says that Mourinho is not capable of getting the best out of his squad, either through lack of motivation, or tactical approach, probably a combination of both. If the player power argument is valid, it doesn't alter the fact that he's not the right man for the job, because he clearly is a significant part of the problem. My argument is somewhat negated insofar as we will in all probability lose some of our best players shortly, and will no longer have a stronger squad than the teams mentioned. That being the case, Mourinho is not the manager imo to rebuild a squad on a limited transfer budget, and a requirement to bring out the full potential in academy players.
 
Whilst accepting that we have weaknesses which have to be fixed if we are to get back to anywhere the top four, is the squad we have really weaker in terms of ability than Shef Utd, Wolves or Burnley, all of whom are likely to finish above us. I don't think so, and that for me says that Mourinho is not capable of getting the best out of his squad, either through lack of motivation, or tactical approach, probably a combination of both. If the player power argument is valid, it doesn't alter the fact that he's not the right man for the job, because he clearly is a significant part of the problem. My argument is somewhat negated insofar as we will in all probability lose some of our best players shortly, and will no longer have a stronger squad than the teams mentioned. That being the case, Mourinho is not the manager imo to rebuild a squad on a limited transfer budget, and a requirement to bring out the full potential in academy players.
Defensively, yes I'd say we are weaker than those teams and many below them. Fix that, including a quality holding midfielder/DM, and I think we'd see a significant improvement in results if not necessarily the attractive football many want to see.
 
I see it as a house that has startled to crumble and in need of wholescale repair.

Three years ago we had arguably the two best full backs in the country in Walker and Rose. Neither have been replaced. We had one of the best keepers but he's on the wane. Toby was probably the best CB in the country and Jan not far behind. Neither has been replaced although Tanga may fill one of those roles one day. Eriksen has gone. Lo Celso and Ndombele may replace him but they're not there yet. Dembele has gone and we have nothing remotely comparable to replace him. Kane is a shadow of his former self and I doubt if we'll ever see the form we saw three years ago again. Ditto Dele.

That's a lot of infrastructure that needs replacing to restore it to its former glory.
What glory was that,,,second best ...we won feck all mate!
 

Harry-Kari

Vital 1st Team Regular
As always, the voice of reason. Totally agree that Jose should be given that opportunity to fix this mess. Pandering to those spoilt bunch of brats and their agents and letting them have a third manager to not play for is utter madness.

There is no manager in the world that can walk into our club and immediately deal with the current player power. It's been a build up over 3 years and now some players clearly think it is acceptable. You could tell that culture when Kane just told everyone else that he was taking that free-kick last night. A newbie like Gio's face was an absolute picture.

So knowing that the culture in the club comes from Levy, we might as well keep a bad ass like Jose and let him take his time to work through it. He needs to remove the guys without football brains and needs to either fix or remove the attitude issues with some of the others. It's the toughest job in football.
Agree....I’ve said so in the past but I’d forgotten how watching a performance like Thursday’s can spark the irrational side of what passes for my brain...completely agree re:Kane as well...if it wasn’t for the state of the market I’d be tempted to cash in.
 
Jose is a winner.

Spurs haven't won a trophy in as long as i can remember.

The problem is therefore Jose.

Yeah... right!
I thought that way before the lock down. But then I have re analyzed the situation for what it is. Circumstances have certainly changed.

He is a proven winner, but will he be that guy here?

I haven't seen anything to suggest that will be the case. He hasn't organized the team at all in his time here. I thought that would be the first thing he does. But he has failed miserably. We look just as weak as we did under Poch.

The players are not exactly running through walls for him which I thought would be a given.

If Covid hadn't ruined our transfer budget I think he could have got us a trophy next season. But the money will not be there now.

I think his style of management is dated and he hasn't shown the ability to adapt since he has been here. I just think his ego is to big and he won't budge.

It's a shame because he could have been a good fit if he was willing to adapt. He has the CV. Sadly he won't change just like our joke owners.
 
Not really. These aren't chidren he's talking to, they're grown men. They have talent but they lack the character to push on & give a good account of themselves. The lack of hunger in their displays is proof of the pudding. Players need to be called out & whilst everybody's acting all nicey-nicey & holding hands with each other, we're faltering. The club needs a strong voice & we sure aren't getting that from anyone on the pitch atm.
Totally agree the players are part of the problem. None of them have won anything worthy in England yet their ego's won't show the passion or desire to go to the next level.

Whoever comes in next will have similar issues because the players we do have are not that good and have poor mentalities.
 
Jose has until at least the end of the season and a transfer window ahead of him. Let's see how it pans out before pulling the trigger. I was gutted after the result yesterday and I can lay some blame at Jose. I didnt see players not wanting to play for him. If that is the case, the poor final third play and defence was deliberate which is on the players and unforgivable.
Look at the goals we conceded there was virtually no effort there whatsoever.
 
Okay, let's say to reform it to its former self. For many Spurs fans, the football played under Poch for a couple of years was they best they had seen for decades, even if it didn't result in a trophy.
The 2015/18 squad was very good though. Poch had the players at his disposal.

I think some of the football we played under Harry was on par if not better to be honest. Even in the Jol days we played some decent stuff with weaker squads.

I said it back in March this squad is average at best. It reminds me of the Pleat/Santini days. Except we have a nice shiny new stadium and training facilities now.
 
The 2015/18 squad was very good though. Poch had the players at his disposal.

I think some of the football we played under Harry was on par if not better to be honest. Even in the Jol days we played some decent stuff with weaker squads.

I said it back in March this squad is average at best. It reminds me of the Pleat/Santini days. Except we have a nice shiny new stadium and training facilities now.
I think the 2015/16 and 2016/17 team was better than anything Redknapp produced. We were a team from front to back under Poch. We scored more goals. Conceded less. And accumulated far more points. Poch also had us competing in the cups simultaneously.
 

Walthamstow wanderer

Vital 1st Team Regular
I am totally amazed that he hasn’t changed anything in our vulnerability to ship goals and inability to score goals . We are still just as poor at it as when he arrived . We all gave him breathing space to change things , re- organise, , energise , adapt , coach , but it just doesn’t seem to have happened .
None of the players actually look happy . They all look like they are just going through the motions . How much longer can we blame injuries , recovery from injury , match fitness , .
It hurts me say , but I’m not looking forward to games anymore , it’s just the same old dross we were playing before under Poch and before lockdown . If he was brought in to change things , it isn't happening .
I can’t believe he could have anything good to say after the Sheffield game , I just turned the tv over and havent bothered reading anything about it in the media after the game so I don’t know what he has said, or what has been said , but in my mind ,after that game , he had to be sacked or resign . It was that bad in my mind . He actually looked clueless on the sidelines . We were outplayed , out thought , taught a lesson in wanting to win , how to win , by Sheffield United . And that is not putting them down , alluding that they are a crap team , They have been better than us all season . In every department . I had never heard of most of those players or the manager until the start of this season.
 
I thought that way before the lock down. But then I have re analyzed the situation for what it is. Circumstances have certainly changed.

He is a proven winner, but will he be that guy here?

I haven't seen anything to suggest that will be the case. He hasn't organized the team at all in his time here. I thought that would be the first thing he does. But he has failed miserably. We look just as weak as we did under Poch.

The players are not exactly running through walls for him which I thought would be a given.

If Covid hadn't ruined our transfer budget I think he could have got us a trophy next season. But the money will not be there now.

I think his style of management is dated and he hasn't shown the ability to adapt since he has been here. I just think his ego is to big and he won't budge.

It's a shame because he could have been a good fit if he was willing to adapt. He has the CV. Sadly he won't change just like our joke owners.
Whatever about Jose's 'failings' as a manager of producing attractive, attacking football, if he can't organise a team then that tells you a lot about the players.

Since he's been here I think he's been trying to make us defensively more solid. You can't expect our forwards to have to score 3 or 4 goals to win every game. And in the first two games after the lockdown there were signs that he was succeeding. Had we scored first against Sheffield I think we would have won at a canter and this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place.

It's in his DNA to build from the back. And at this stage I would sacrifice flair for a team that wins even if it's not pretty. He knows he has a lot of attacking potential at his disposal. If he gets the building blocks in place he can loosen the reins on our forwards.

When Poch was sacked Jose wouldn't have been my first choice. He wouldn't have even been in my top 5. But I do think he can change the mentality of not just the players but the club. I would give him at least another season to get a few players in and put his ideas into practice. If there's no discernible improvement a year on then we have to move on. But the idea that there's a stream of managers out there at present who can come and transform this squad, I think is fanciful.