Jose Mourinho July Manager of The Month Vote Here | Page 2 | Vital Football

Jose Mourinho July Manager of The Month Vote Here

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#23
agree completely. It's arbitrary. Managers have won manager of the month and been sacked soon after a few times I think. It usually just goes to whoever had the best record numerically, or a manager whose team punched above their weight. Don't think Jose qualifies for either.
So let's scrap this thread then !! It's a discussion about whether Jose deserves any recognition for the last 6 games in the position he found us in and the circumstances around it.
 
#24
I think we were very fortunate to finish 6th. When lock down happened it gave us a chance to get our best players back fit.

Lets be honest if the season finished when it was supposed to we would have finished a lot lower. We were truly shocking at the time.

Jose took advantage of the situation because he is a winner. Worked out to our advantage.
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Reserves Team
#25
I think we were very fortunate to finish 6th. When lock down happened it gave us a chance to get our best players back fit.

Lets be honest if the season finished when it was supposed to we would have finished a lot lower. We were truly shocking at the time.

Jose took advantage of the situation because he is a winner. Worked out to our advantage.
Agree totally, our form at lock down without Kane and Son was absolutely dreadful, and with both of them at that stage unlikely to play again for the season, and Jose clearly unhappy and not in 'motivational mode' at that stage, we would have been hard pushed to finish in the top half if the season had proceeded to a normal finish. Initially after the restart it looked like a case of here we go again, or maybe here we don't again. Full credit to Jose however, that after the debacle in Sheffield, and not much better in Bournemouth, he managed to get enough out of the squad to produce a satisfactory, bordering on successful outcome to the season.
 
#26
I think we were very fortunate to finish 6th. When lock down happened it gave us a chance to get our best players back fit.

Lets be honest if the season finished when it was supposed to we would have finished a lot lower. We were truly shocking at the time.

Jose took advantage of the situation because he is a winner. Worked out to our advantage.
Our form was dreadful; but you can't be a soothsayer just because it fits the narrative; if all the players had return fit and Poch was in charge the chances are we'd have seen more of N'dombele who really is a class act in my mind, he would have settled, Gio would have settled (as he has) and the pair of them plus all the walking wounded may well have take their chance and perhaps even Sess would have had his chance and we wouldn't have had Davies at left-back who has been for the most part totally ineffective going forward or backwards.

Much of the improvement post-return could also have been to do with getting rid of the very bad apple that CE turned into.

I can see why you make these assumptions, but it has validity - in fact about as much as my view have on how it would have worked out! :box:
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#27
Another factor to consider on the 6 games if people are still reading this thread after it being labelled as unimportant is.......The rest period we had between games compared to our rivals or opponents.
.
 

Matic

Alert Team
#28
Jose deserves recognition for getting us into 6th, I was never saying he doesnt. My argument was mainly that the manager of the month decision should be based purely on points won and any successes during that period. For me, Ole should be the winner for getting Man Utd into the CL against Pep for most points, Klopp for winning the league and Jose for getting us into Europa.

I just disagreed that considerations towards squad value, time with squad and injuries should be any sort of a factor as then its changing a narrative to engineer an outcome.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#29
Jose deserves recognition for getting us into 6th, I was never saying he doesnt. My argument was mainly that the manager of the month decision should be based purely on points won and any successes during that period. For me, Ole should be the winner for getting Man Utd into the CL against Pep for most points, Klopp for winning the league and Jose for getting us into Europa.

I just disagreed that considerations towards squad value, time with squad and injuries should be any sort of a factor as then its changing a narrative to engineer an outcome.
To base the award purely on points won is a bit one dimensional in my view.
 

Matic

Alert Team
#31
To base the award purely on points won is a bit one dimensional in my view.
I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but it is how they are designed to be. If you start saying 'you need to consider how much that manager has spent and how long he has had with the players' you engineer the award to never be given to the likes of Klopp, Pep, Mourinho, Ole etc. because they will always spend more, have more depth in the squad, have better training facilities.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#32
Ok, why not come up with a set of criteria you think it should be based on; give points out of 10 for each category for each manager on your shortlist and let's see how arguable or unarguable the outcome is?
Because of my outlook , I challenge opinion. A 6 game run should be analysed on a game by game basis. What were the factors leading to or contributing to the victory . I am not qualified to judge each aspect of a managers work. A change in tactics before the game, likewise during the game in response to the opposition. A change in personnel to suit the strengths of the opposition. Substitutions which make a difference. These are just a few ways a manager can influence an outcome. To give the award to Klopp or Pep each month may be the result after all consideration.
I started by looking at the points tally after 6 games of a few of our rivals. Jose didnt score the most points, he didnt get CL football. But what manager got the best tune out of the instruments at his disposal ??
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#33
So let's scrap this thread then !! It's a discussion about whether Jose deserves any recognition for the last 6 games in the position he found us in and the circumstances around it.
I thought it was encouraging us to vote for him as he was nominated. I've explained why I don't think he was the best manager this month - but the award isn't given based on anything outside that month - just how the teams performed.
 

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
#34
I think we were very fortunate to finish 6th. When lock down happened it gave us a chance to get our best players back fit.

Lets be honest if the season finished when it was supposed to we would have finished a lot lower. We were truly shocking at the time.

Jose took advantage of the situation because he is a winner. Worked out to our advantage.
agree with this completely. We were circling the drain and I think his position would have been called into question. However post lockdown the results have been much better and there's optimism about what he might do next season with a few more resources and some kind of pre season.
 

Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
#35
Well it's got us talking and we have been asked to help out with getting threads going rather than kill them stone dead by dismissing the subject.
I have not challenged for debate reasons though. I am genuinely interested in the nuances of management and how to judge them. Like I said , I am not qualified but if anyone is interested ( which judging by the player ratings thread , they ain't) , I would be up for compiling a list of measures to judge Jose by as an ongoing thread after matches.

Here is my starter.....Team Selection. I'm not going to do it all, let's see how interested posters are ?
 

SmithAndJones

Vital Reserves Team
#37
Well it's got us talking and we have been asked to help out with getting threads going rather than kill them stone dead by dismissing the subject.
I have not challenged for debate reasons though. I am genuinely interested in the nuances of management and how to judge them. Like I said , I am not qualified but if anyone is interested ( which judging by the player ratings thread , they ain't) , I would be up for compiling a list of measures to judge Jose by as an ongoing thread after matches.

Here is my starter.....Team Selection. I'm not going to do it all, let's see how interested posters are ?
Tactics, although that is to some extent closely aligned to Team Selection, so I'll also throw in Media Interaction.
 
#38
I think we were very fortunate to finish 6th. When lock down happened it gave us a chance to get our best players back fit.

Lets be honest if the season finished when it was supposed to we would have finished a lot lower. We were truly shocking at the time.

Jose took advantage of the situation because he is a winner. Worked out to our advantage.

Which is what you want from a manager.
 

Welshtel

Vital Football Hero
#40
It’s now time for Jose to show up and do the business of winning us the league and a few cups. Buy some players if necessary but we have waited too long as fans. We have the Stadium, the training grounds and a decent team but we need to move on, SERIOUSLY. We’ve had time to get most back to fitness, now we need results.