John Fleck | Page 2 | Vital Football

John Fleck

Chronic

Vital 1st Team Regular
#21
On the other hand, Fleck actually contracted Covid in June so maybe he and the other players collapsed as a result of getting the disease, not because he took the jab?
But he won't have had Covid while playing that game, as they all have to be tested. Also, having had Covid and recovered wouldn't he be more protected with the antibodies than if he wouldn't have had it at all?

And as far as I know there's no precedent for such a virus contributing to people, least of all professional athletes, collapsing in the way they have.

My theory would be that given myocarditis is a known possible side effect of this vaccine, professional athletes are over represented in the people who suffer something along these lines because they're the ones who put the greatest demands on their cardio system.

Issues concerning the heart and the fragility of it, and the seemingly random selection of people who can be struck down has always worried me a bit and now this vaccine is thrown into the mix it worries me even more, as somebody who puts a fair amount of strain on my cardio system. These cases of players collapsing is extremely off putting for me the second I even ask myself about the possibility of vaccination.
 

Grayblade

Vital 1st Team Regular
#22
But he won't have had Covid while playing that game, as they all have to be tested. Also, having had Covid and recovered wouldn't he be more protected with the antibodies than if he wouldn't have had it at all?

And as far as I know there's no precedent for such a virus contributing to people, least of all professional athletes, collapsing in the way they have.

My theory would be that given myocarditis is a known possible side effect of this vaccine, professional athletes are over represented in the people who suffer something along these lines because they're the ones who put the greatest demands on their cardio system.

Issues concerning the heart and the fragility of it, and the seemingly random selection of people who can be struck down has always worried me a bit and now this vaccine is thrown into the mix it worries me even more, as somebody who puts a fair amount of strain on my cardio system. These cases of players collapsing is extremely off putting for me the second I even ask myself about the possibility of vaccination.
I was thinking along the lines of underlying damage to the respiratory system putting extra pressure on the CVS but I agree it definitely needs to be looked into.
 
#24
I think we ought to mention that the data says you have a far higher chance of dying from Covid, or something Covid related than any chance of developing myocardial problems. It does need to be looked at, but there is a wall of noise from anti-vaxers who are jumping on anything and everything to make their points. Facts are being exaggerated, taken out of context or just plain fabricated for the benefit of social media.

For the record, I've stopped taking anything at face value just because a lot of people are talking about it. I'm totally for people who don't want to be vaxed, but the vaccines are clearly working, you only have to look at the hospitalisation rates, and the mess Europe is in, to figure that out. No vax, drug, or treatment is without its problems. People die taking Aspirin. There are too many anti-vaxers who are treating this as a political football, rather than a personal choice.
 
#26
I think we ought to mention that the data says you have a far higher chance of dying from Covid, or something Covid related than any chance of developing myocardial problems.
How do you know this is true? The people who provided the data are the same people who profit from the vaccines and the people who "confirmed" the data are the same ones who lied about the lab leak to further their own careers. Clearly the doctor in that video has found some kind of contrary evidence, backed up by some medical researchers who appear to have been pressured by pharmaceutical companies not to say anything. Maybe he is wrong, he even admits there are other potential factors, but we are constantly being told to "believe the science" when apparently we are only allowed to believe some of it.

There are too many anti-vaxers who are treating this as a political football, rather than a personal choice.
For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxer and I've had both jabs for months. However, the concept of "personal choice" is currently under threat in places like Austria and I've not seen any politician in this country stand up and condemn them for forcing this on people who don't want it. Our government's comments were basically "there are no plans for us to do this...yet". That's very troubling to me and I find it disturbing that it doesn't seem to trouble most other people.
 
#28
How do you know this is true? The people who provided the data are the same people who profit from the vaccines and the people who "confirmed" the data are the same ones who lied about the lab leak to further their own careers. Clearly the doctor in that video has found some kind of contrary evidence, backed up by some medical researchers who appear to have been pressured by pharmaceutical companies not to say anything. Maybe he is wrong, he even admits there are other potential factors, but we are constantly being told to "believe the science" when apparently we are only allowed to believe some of it.

For the record, I'm not an anti-vaxer and I've had both jabs for months. However, the concept of "personal choice" is currently under threat in places like Austria and I've not seen any politician in this country stand up and condemn them for forcing this on people who don't want it. Our government's comments were basically "there are no plans for us to do this...yet". That's very troubling to me and I find it disturbing that it doesn't seem to trouble most other people.

Its a matter of public record Sir Rod. Either you believe the official figures, or you believe what someone puts on Twitter, which are subject to their manipulation, or can even just be made up for personal or political reasons. I'll stick with the official versions. I'm not saying that the vax doesn't cause problems, all drugs are essentially poisons in one form or another. If you see 2 cases in 10 people does that mean there are automatically 2 million cases in 10 million people..?

We don't live in Austria. They are miles behind on vaxing, they didn't get Delta in the same levels as we did. What their government decides to do is a matter between them and their people. I think it is quite disturbing, but it is something that almost every nation has or is going through. Our government is holding firm, having by luck of judgement, made the right call in the level of vaxing and the timing of 'Freedom Day'.

More new variants getting reported of course, but viruses get easier to catch, AND easier to fight off as they change. Nothing new about that. The educated and middle class left is really blinded by their need to be 'safe', they have been filled with anxiety and fear, pessimism and illogical expectations about their health and that of others. They would sell all their rights for a warm feeling of safety. Its a luxury that many don't have.
 
#29
Its a matter of public record Sir Rod. Either you believe the official figures, or you believe what someone puts on Twitter, which are subject to their manipulation, or can even just be made up for personal or political reasons. I'll stick with the official versions. I'm not saying that the vax doesn't cause problems, all drugs are essentially poisons in one form or another. If you see 2 cases in 10 people does that mean there are automatically 2 million cases in 10 million people..?
It's also a matter of public record that the vaccines are still in their testing phases, which won't be finished until 2023. Who knows how that might change the current data by the time the testing is complete. They've been rushed through for emergency use, which I completely understand, but I am totally against young and healthy people (especially children) being forced or coerced into taking something which might harm them far more than the virus will.

I'm not sure why you mentioned Twitter though, I posted a video of a doctor discussing his findings on a news channel. I don't read Twitter very often and certainly wouldn't assume that something a random person said on there is true without further investigation for myself. I don't even think Dr Malhotra is correct just on his say so, but I would like to see more investigations being done on the subject and less hostility shown towards people who aren't convinced that the vaccines are right for them.

We don't live in Austria. They are miles behind on vaxing, they didn't get Delta in the same levels as we did. What their government decides to do is a matter between them and their people. I think it is quite disturbing, but it is something that almost every nation has or is going through. Our government is holding firm, having by luck of judgement, made the right call in the level of vaxing and the timing of 'Freedom Day'.
I think there's a little bit of "For Whom the Bell Tolls" to that kind of thinking. I guarantee that if places like Austria and the Netherlands had pulled this off without a problem that our government (and others around the world) would have made plans to do the same, either on their own or following pressure from the media. I'm thankful that people in those countries are publicly rejecting the idea, which will hopefully make our own set of tyrants think twice about it.

More new variants getting reported of course, but viruses get easier to catch, AND easier to fight off as they change. Nothing new about that. The educated and middle class left is really blinded by their need to be 'safe', they have been filled with anxiety and fear, pessimism and illogical expectations about their health and that of others. They would sell all their rights for a warm feeling of safety. Its a luxury that many don't have.
I agree with this. Today's papers are full of new scare stories about a variant that nobody has any facts about. Many of them are using words like "might" and "maybe" a lot when talking about it ignoring current immunity or being more deadly, presumably hoping that the average reader won't twig that the phrases could just as easily be "might not" and "maybe not". I saw an interview with a doctor earlier in the week who said that hundreds of new variants are found every month, but the elites only seem to focus on one (and give it a name) when they want to use it for some purpose. The fact that this one has come to light while people in Europe are rioting is probably not a coincidence. No doubt some of the media in this country are already planning to use this to pressure the government to enact "Plan B". There's some weird people in this world who won't be satisfied until we've all had masks permanently welded to our faces and then been barricaded in our homes!
 
#30
There are a million plausible yet contradictory videos, by a million plausible yet contradictory medical experts. I can't be bothered about sorting the wheat from the chaff. to be honest. Some may be true, others may be bullshit. I am not a big enough expert on matters medical to go over the finer points. So I tend to treat it all with contempt until I have read enough myself to form an opinion. I give myself a 50/50 chance of being wrong.

I have no more influence in Austria that the ability to fly without a Boeing 737. If they pass a law to paint their arses blue, I can do nothing about it, and I care even less. We have enough to think about ourselves.

We are totally agreed on the last bit. There are some weird people, MSM, politicians, and our fellow citizens who are having a great time in CovidWorld, gaining money and influence and power they never thought possible. They want this to go on for ever. I still have faith that our government will not act beyond the point of necessity, or without due cause, although I think we have got pretty close to the line. I'm watching very closely, as are a lot of other people. If they do decide to exceed their mandate, there will be a lot of lock-downers that will support them over their own liberty.
 
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Chips1889

Vital 1st Team Regular
#31
Its a matter of public record Sir Rod. Either you believe the official figures, or you believe what someone puts on Twitter, which are subject to their manipulation, or can even just be made up for personal or political reasons. I'll stick with the official versions. I'm not saying that the vax doesn't cause problems, all drugs are essentially poisons in one form or another. If you see 2 cases in 10 people does that mean there are automatically 2 million cases in 10 million people..?

We don't live in Austria. They are miles behind on vaxing, they didn't get Delta in the same levels as we did. What their government decides to do is a matter between them and their people. I think it is quite disturbing, but it is something that almost every nation has or is going through. Our government is holding firm, having by luck of judgement, made the right call in the level of vaxing and the timing of 'Freedom Day'.

More new variants getting reported of course, but viruses get easier to catch, AND easier to fight off as they change. Nothing new about that. The educated and middle class left is really blinded by their need to be 'safe', they have been filled with anxiety and fear, pessimism and illogical expectations about their health and that of others. They would sell all their rights for a warm feeling of safety. Its a luxury that many don't have.
Public report or propaganda?