January 2020 Transfer target speculation and fantasies

[muttley]

Weir

Weird thing was though Mutters , is that he closed down the defender in the first minute , won the ball , run through and shot on goal . Twenty foot over though ! But never mind .
He never did it again , closing down I mean , in the whole match as I remember

Exactly, it was Moura that shut down the Juventus defender for the Kane wonder goal in pre-season. The most annoying thing is that he has it in him as he keeps showing sporadically. I can only hope the increased pressure for places has a positive impact on this stuff. We have Sessegnon able to play that position ahead of the midfield as well as Son, Moura, Lamela and Lo Celso. Poch must be happy with his options.

 

[Harry-Kari]

Moura is a goal scorer with pace to burn...Poch has tried to turn him into something he isn’t...when the chips are down and he is let off his lead he is dynamite..Poch coaches the natural ability out of players...may as well sell both Moura and Son because they don’t fit his negative style of play.

 

[freundorfoe]

Yes Son has really gone backwards under Poch. FFS.

 

[muttley]

On one hand you have a manager in Poch that clearly doesn't make high enough demands and be willing to dish out the tough love. On the other hand you have 2 players that need to work harder at the weaker parts of their game. They don't seem to be showing the minerals for that task and therefore aren't playing to their potential.

It's very frustrating, especially when you see Pep losing the plot in the technical area when a guy like Sane doesn't show the commitment to the team ethic. Clearly other teams have a higher level of expectations and why Sterling is twice the player of Son and Moura and 3 years younger.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

On one hand you have a manager in Poch that clearly doesn't make high enough demands and be willing to dish out the tough love. On the other hand you have 2 players that need to work harder at the weaker parts of their game. They don't seem to be showing the minerals for that task and therefore aren't playing to their potential.

It's very frustrating, especially when you see Pep losing the plot in the technical area when a guy like Sane doesn't show the commitment to the team ethic. Clearly other teams have a higher level of expectations and why Sterling is twice the player of Son and Moura and 3 years younger.

Something must have changed in Poch's mind though. In his second season in charge we pressed like crazy in every match throughout the season although we did run out of puff a little bit towards the end. Maybe he was influenced by that because the following season we certainly eased up. The last two seasons you can count the number of games on one hand where we have pressed for 90 minutes. Maybe he thinks it's not sustainable throughout a season? Having said that both City and Liverpool are relentless in their pressing in every match throughout the season.

 

[Harry-Kari]

On one hand you have a manager in Poch that clearly doesn't make high enough demands and be willing to dish out the tough love. On the other hand you have 2 players that need to work harder at the weaker parts of their game. They don't seem to be showing the minerals for that task and therefore aren't playing to their potential.

It's very frustrating, especially when you see Pep losing the plot in the technical area when a guy like Sane doesn't show the commitment to the team ethic. Clearly other teams have a higher level of expectations and why Sterling is twice the player of Son and Moura and 3 years younger.

Sterling has become the player he is on the back of Pep explaining how to make late runs and where to make them....he is encouraged to attack...that’s why City have players like Rodrigo and his predecessor in the team to read the danger of counter attacks and foul when necessary...we lack both abilities at the moment both coaching wise and defenders that read the game, hence attacking players are asked to cover for these deficiencies.

As for criticising Moura for half hearted pressing, many commentators have pointed out either you press as a team or you don’t bother...shades of Harry Kane running himself into the ground making token pressing efforts...it’s true that City and Liverpool apply full presses particularly in the first half of games and try to score as many goals as they can so that they can rest in the second half....their pressing drops significantly as they move to a counter-attack strategy where they have the players to be clinical, unlike us in many matches.

 

[Gary Onedaysoon]

Sterling has become the player he is on the back of Pep explaining how to make late runs and where to make them....he is encouraged to attack...that’s why City have players like Rodrigo and his predecessor in the team to read the danger of counter attacks and foul when necessary...we lack both abilities at the moment both coaching wise and defenders that read the game, hence attacking players are asked to cover for these deficiencies.

As for criticising Moura for half hearted pressing, many commentators have pointed out either you press as a team or you don’t bother...shades of Harry Kane running himself into the ground making token pressing efforts...it’s true that City and Liverpool apply full presses particularly in the first half of games and try to score as many goals as they can so that they can rest in the second half....their pressing drops significantly as they move to a counter-attack strategy where they have the players to be clinical, unlike us in many matches.

Totally agree that you need to press as a team not individually. But we used to do it as a team and now we don't. Given that it was very successful for us something must have changed in Poch's mind.

 

[Spursex]

Totally agree that you need to press as a team not individually. But we used to do it as a team and now we don't. Given that it was very successful for us something must have changed in Poch's mind.

One of the reasons we press in the corners but not always all over the pitch during transition at times was because firstly we lost Walker whose pace in recovery/closing down a break away was never properly understood as part of our game management - and once we lost him it would be Rose 'holding' the half way line as we pressed and counter pressed - but his injuries also put paid to that as we now had to cover spaces because of teams using the long through or over the top ball.

It's Davidson Sanchez whose responsibility it is now - which may have been one of the reasons that Jan was dropped as both Toby and Jan are slow on the recovery now.

If you like, we 'half-press; now into the corners and ahead of the half way line, after that we become zonally defensive and then look to counter as we corner an attack and then press.

So that's essentially how Poch has evolved our press over the last few seasons.

 

[muttley]

Sterling has become the player he is on the back of Pep explaining how to make late runs and where to make them....he is encouraged to attack...that’s why City have players like Rodrigo and his predecessor in the team to read the danger of counter attacks and foul when necessary...we lack both abilities at the moment both coaching wise and defenders that read the game, hence attacking players are asked to cover for these deficiencies.

As for criticising Moura for half hearted pressing, many commentators have pointed out either you press as a team or you don’t bother...shades of Harry Kane running himself into the ground making token pressing efforts...it’s true that City and Liverpool apply full presses particularly in the first half of games and try to score as many goals as they can so that they can rest in the second half....their pressing drops significantly as they move to a counter-attack strategy where they have the players to be clinical, unlike us in many matches.

I get what you're saying, but would add that you either press high or you drop in and fill holes and mark players or space. We are now often caught with 7 players (4 def, 3 mf) back and the 8th or 9th player not even on view of the TV cameras as they are so high up the pitch with the striker. You then see the sprint from Son, Moura, Lamela etc and they burn unnecessary energy that could use for attacking or shutting down. So not sure we're even conserving energy over a season as they're not engaging brain. Ultimately, we're not defending as a team regardless of high press or not.

Eriksen has played most of football for Spurs in advanced attacking positions mostly in the 3 in a 4-2-3-1. His 2nd best running stats in the league came from being the team player. Dropping in, helping out the more defensively minded players and nicking the ball. Being in a position to receive the ball. Then he'd get back on the move and find spaces in the attacking areas to influence the game. Dele does the same at his very best as well. I'm mostly asking Moura and Son to take more responsibility in this area as it looks like they're cheating. No team in the Prem can afford to leave 3 up top.

 

[Matic]

Sanchez was more concerned with stopping his man than going for the ball. He kind of stalled in his run. We were collectively caught out in defence and Poch needs to work on it.

I'm actually of the opinion that Sanchez was the only defender doing exactly what he should be doing. Toby was AWOL and Rose was hesitant and was rash in his attempts to make up for his mistake.

We got caught out and I hope Poch learns the biggest lesson from it as his first half tactics are now consistently ropey in the PL. More often than not his reactive tactics are decent, which is why we had the most comebacks from losing first half positions last season. Pre-match judgements are where he is failing at the moment.

 

[Critical_Spur]

it’s true that City and Liverpool apply full presses particularly in the first half of games and try to score as many goals as they can so that they can rest in the second half....their pressing drops significantly as they move to a counter-attack strategy where they have the players to be clinical, unlike us in many matches.

Bang on! Glad I read you post before responding to an earlier observation from Gary.

Last season goals scored: City- 95, Pool - 89 & Spurs - 67. Not sure how many goals were scored purely in 1st half of all games.

It could've been a landslide victory v Villa had we converted early on. Instead goal down, frustrations and totally lost the plot until late on.

 

[Critical_Spur]

More often than not his reactive tactics are decent, which is why we had the most comebacks from losing first half positions last season. Pre-match judgements are where he is failing at the moment.

Yep, I'd like to see that reactive tactics introduced much sooner though. Wait 'til half time v City and game over.

 

[ftuttle]

To maintain the high press that City and pool maintain, they have squad depth in those types of players, which we lack. It was difficult for us to maintain those initial levels, particularly last season, as we had a massive hangover from the WC.

Maybe with the addition of N'domdele and GLC, we can press more quickly and take pressure of the AM's, with the press coming from midfield rather than further back.

 

[Spursex]

I'm actually of the opinion that Sanchez was the only defender doing exactly what he should be doing. Toby was AWOL and Rose was hesitant and was rash in his attempts to make up for his mistake.

We got caught out and I hope Poch learns the biggest lesson from it as his first half tactics are now consistently ropey in the PL. More often than not his reactive tactics are decent, which is why we had the most comebacks from losing first half positions last season. Pre-match judgements are where he is failing at the moment.

The biggest lesson is that Lloris should take some responsibility too; he was far too slow to come off his line and narrow the angle - I suspect because he believed Rose would deal with it, but of course he slipped; if he hadn't of done, I expect they wouldn't have scored.

 

[muttley]

I'm actually of the opinion that Sanchez was the only defender doing exactly what he should be doing. Toby was AWOL and Rose was hesitant and was rash in his attempts to make up for his mistake.

We got caught out and I hope Poch learns the biggest lesson from it as his first half tactics are now consistently ropey in the PL. More often than not his reactive tactics are decent, which is why we had the most comebacks from losing first half positions last season. Pre-match judgements are where he is failing at the moment.

With most goals there's a bunch of stuff going on. The McGinn goal was intriguing as he plays centre mid and clearly nobody in our midfield stayed with him as he became the furthest forward. Then you have Sanchez playing on the left of Toby but both were on the right for Ming's ball. Toby was in no mans land and Sanchez spent all his time focusing on the player, not the ball. Then the Moura stuff higher up. Did Rose come in on the pivot quick enough? They are all course mere mortals, not superhuman :-)

We've spent a ton of time talking about Poch stay or go. We then focused on whether Poch gets the players he needs to get us firing again. He mostly did. I'm thinking Poch's team selection and tactics will become the dominant conversation this season.

 

[Spursex]

With most goals there's a bunch of stuff going on. The McGinn goal was intriguing as he plays centre mid and clearly nobody in our midfield stayed with him as he became the furthest forward. Then you have Sanchez playing on the left of Toby but both were on the right for Ming's ball. Toby was in no mans land and Sanchez spent all his time focusing on the player, not the ball. Then the Moura stuff higher up. Did Rose come in on the pivot quick enough? They are all course mere mortals, not superhuman :-)

We've spent a ton of time talking about Poch stay or go. We then focused on whether Poch gets the players he needs to get us firing again. He mostly did. I'm thinking Poch's team selection and tactics will become the dominant conversation this season.

I don't think you're going to see a sudden change in the tactical approach just the formation one.

The whole point of the press and possession based football is to literally tire/exhaust the opposition. As players/teams tire structural and tatical discipline decays and gaps open.

There is nothing more tiring than chasing ghosts and not seeing the ball, the strategic thinking behind it originally was that in South America they had to find away to counter the predominately defensive nature of games by less capable/less technical teams; then as the game wears on youcould adjust intelligently to the opposition formation/tactics/game management - It's been proven many times over that tiring teams lose both mental and physical concentration under these circumstances - basically that's the speech Poch made in explanation of the system that we employ and why he puts so much credence on physical fitness, tacticalawareness/footballing intelligence and that judgement starts by what he sees on the training pitch and in the tactical classroom based sessions.

So I expect formation changes, but the 'system' to largely remain intact whereby we try and conserve energy whilst they tire - it's why you often see 'press' periods and then periods of recovery rather than constant press at 100 mph.

The trouble comes when you come up against a better technical team and simply put, better more creative players - and city have them in abundance.

There isn't one of their 'b' team that wouldn't get into our squad in a walk, that in itself is hugely intimidating when you're trying to come up with a winning strategy.

 

[ftuttle]

The trouble comes when you come up against a better technical team and simply put, better more creative players - and city have them in abundance.

There isn't one of their 'b' team that wouldn't get into our squad in a walk, that in itself is hugely intimidating when you're trying to come up with a winning strategy.

That's what state sponsorship buys you.

 

[Harry-Kari]

I don't think you're going to see a sudden change in the tactical approach just the formation one.

The whole point of the press and possession based football is to literally tire/exhaust the opposition. As players/teams tire structural and tatical discipline decays and gaps open.

There is nothing more tiring than chasing ghosts and not seeing the ball, the strategic thinking behind it originally was that in South America they had to find away to counter the predominately defensive nature of games by less capable/less technical teams; then as the game wears on youcould adjust intelligently to the opposition formation/tactics/game management - It's been proven many times over that tiring teams lose both mental and physical concentration under these circumstances - basically that's the speech Poch made in explanation of the system that we employ and why he puts so much credence on physical fitness, tacticalawareness/footballing intelligence and that judgement starts by what he sees on the training pitch and in the tactical classroom based sessions.

So I expect formation changes, but the 'system' to largely remain intact whereby we try and conserve energy whilst they tire - it's why you often see 'press' periods and then periods of recovery rather than constant press at 100 mph.

The trouble comes when you come up against a better technical team and simply put, better more creative players - and city have them in abundance.

There isn't one of their 'b' team that wouldn't get into our squad in a walk, that in itself is hugely intimidating when you're trying to come up with a winning strategy.

It’s an interesting theory except when we come up against organised bus parkers we seem to be the ones that get tired out going from side to side an have often had to rely on one lucky moment of brilliance (Eriksen against Brighton) to get a result or a draw.

 

[Spursex]

It’s an interesting theory except when we come up against organised bus parkers we seem to be the ones that get tired out going from side to side an have often had to rely on one lucky moment of brilliance (Eriksen against Brighton) to get a result or a draw.

I can agree that will always happen on occasion and certainly did towards the back end of last season when legs got tired and our injury list meant rotation was a real luxury much of the time, which also impacted on our available substitutions.

Bielsa (wrongly credited with creating this playing philosophy) defines it as the ultimate expression of possession-based football - but it's a dynamic game and of course, no system is completely perfect and unbreakable - as we witnessed with Liverpool's base aggression from the get-go against Barca and our turn over of ManC - (despite the difference in class and depth).

It's a game; there is always the risk that player A doesn't protect his zone properly or Player B gets caught out of position, but our results ever since Poch took over are over-whelming compelling empirical evidence it succeeds far more than it fails.

Our elevation and status as a club have come about because of it.

 

[Nick Real Deal]

I don't think you're going to see a sudden change in the tactical approach just the formation one.

The whole point of the press and possession based football is to literally tire/exhaust the opposition. As players/teams tire structural and tatical discipline decays and gaps open.

There is nothing more tiring than chasing ghosts and not seeing the ball, the strategic thinking behind it originally was that in South America they had to find away to counter the predominately defensive nature of games by less capable/less technical teams; then as the game wears on youcould adjust intelligently to the opposition formation/tactics/game management - It's been proven many times over that tiring teams lose both mental and physical concentration under these circumstances - basically that's the speech Poch made in explanation of the system that we employ and why he puts so much credence on physical fitness, tacticalawareness/footballing intelligence and that judgement starts by what he sees on the training pitch and in the tactical classroom based sessions.

So I expect formation changes, but the 'system' to largely remain intact whereby we try and conserve energy whilst they tire - it's why you often see 'press' periods and then periods of recovery rather than constant press at 100 mph.

The trouble comes when you come up against a better technical team and simply put, better more creative players - and city have them in abundance.

There isn't one of their 'b' team that wouldn't get into our squad in a walk, that in itself is hugely intimidating when you're trying to come up with a winning strategy.

This is why the bench is so important. There is going to be attrition and fatigue on both sides. Bringing on fresh goal threats in the second half is good option to have. Usually it's Lamela but saving Eriksen from all the early combat I'm not averse to.