Jan Transfer Window | Page 35 | Vital Football

Jan Transfer Window

paz1967 said:
oh, wrong post...Mate, ive seen him in a forest shirt and looks better than what we have. Movement, passing ability, eye for goal, quick... What the hell else do we want? Well, ok we got more, he goes out on loan and looks a class apart in the lower league, potentially be in the player of the season list
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I've seen him in a Forest shirt. He was a young kid who did alright, but certainly didn't show "build a team round him" ability. We have had a host of players who have been star performers in League one. Yates, Grant, Walker Johnson etc. As I've said before we love academy players to make it, especially sons of former players. Johnson is still only 19 and hopefully has a bright future, but we often talk about future stars who in reality don't make the step up. Jenkinson was a 20 year old England full international at one time !
 
mao tse tung said:
Yes, there are some issues I have serious concerns with.

But I am certainly not prepared to hold them to account by a totally different set of standards like you do.

You might not like the comparisons I make with other era's but they are entirely valid.
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So were the ones I made with Fawaz. Your lease comparison was idiotic given the different circumstances as you full well know.
 
My default position with any owner is, at best, significant suspicion.

Unlike CP I don't have this idealistic idea of there being one true morality. I would like to think I am more pragmatic.

I don't know if he is a gangster or not. That's not naevity. I know the stories. I'm not assuming they aren't true. But I know relatively little of Greece and I'm not assuming that, even if they were true, it would mean the same as it does here or that it matters to ownership of a football club. If he is, is he fucking over anyone who isn't already playing the game? I don't know. But I know a venture capitalist is fucking over people who aren't intending to play on that field.

I cannot complain about lack of resources. I cannot complain about missed opportunities to invest from positions of strength. I can complain about strategy around some of the signings, but not the investment. A new stand isn't going to happen but it's been closed than any in my time have got. We have not been in court for routine expenses nor ripped off local businesses. We have moved forward in places in the table every season but this one.

This isn't adoring praise, just a basic appraisal.

They have failed ultimately. It isn't a regime I have ever loved or that has ever won my complete trust, but neither have they earned contempt. They have been competent but flawed.

I still think we would have been worse off under the Americans
 
LynxRed said:
I'm not sure parachuting Brennan Johnson into this mess of a side will help him or Forest. He's a young lad playing very well, but doing so in a confident team with a happy atmosphere.
Bringing him back to Forest into the cesspit of a team we've currently got is not likely to help the lad in any way, and thus it won't help Forest either. Scrape through, stay in the championship (hopefully) and get him involved in a new campaign, a full preseason with Forest, and a confidence high from winning promotion with Lincoln sounds like the best bet to me.
Provided we can scrape through to safety of course.
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Just how is Russ Abbot these days chap?
 
Calvin Plummer said:
So were the ones I made with Fawaz. Your lease comparison was idiotic given the different circumstances as you full well know.
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Idiotic!

Really!

And what would your reaction have been if EM had resorted to such tactics with the Council?

Absolute double standards.

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that you do not like EM, which is actually a bit of an understatement.

Your loathing is based on nothing more than gossip and third party innuendo; not one of the accusations levelled at him have come remotely close to prosecution.

Everyone gets the benefit of doubt from me until they prove otherwise; with Fawaz, for example, it did not take him long to prove otherwise.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
My default position with any owner is, at best, significant suspicion.

Unlike CP I don't have this idealistic idea of there being one true morality. I would like to think I am more pragmatic.

I don't know if he is a gangster or not. That's not naevity. I know the stories. I'm not assuming they aren't true. But I know relatively little of Greece and I'm not assuming that, even if they were true, it would mean the same as it does here or that it matters to ownership of a football club. If he is, is he fucking over anyone who isn't already playing the game? I don't know. But I know a venture capitalist is fucking over people who aren't intending to play on that field.

I cannot complain about lack of resources. I cannot complain about missed opportunities to invest from positions of strength. I can complain about strategy around some of the signings, but not the investment. A new stand isn't going to happen but it's been closed than any in my time have got. We have not been in court for routine expenses nor ripped off local businesses. We have moved forward in places in the table every season but this one.

This isn't adoring praise, just a basic appraisal.

They have failed ultimately. It isn't a regime I have ever loved or that has ever won my complete trust, but neither have they earned contempt. They have been competent but flawed.

I still think we would have been worse off under the Americans
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Very good appraisal.

The only thing I would disagree with relates to the stand; there will come a point in time when he will want to get out; an exit strategy without that stand will prove a lot more difficult.

I think they will find a way to make it happen.
 
mao tse tung said:
Idiotic!

Really!

And what would your reaction have been if EM had resorted to such tactics with the Council?

Absolute double standards.

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that you do not like EM, which is actually a bit of an understatement.

Your loathing is based on nothing more than gossip and third party innuendo; not one of the accusations levelled at him have come remotely close to prosecution.

Everyone gets the benefit of doubt from me until they prove otherwise; with Fawaz, for example, it did not take him long to prove otherwise.
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It's based on a great deal more than that...your willingness to turn a blindeye to morality is your own choice. Aye idiotic, ND was cleaning up a mess caused by the worst owners in the history of the club who were nothing better than asset strippers.

Leaving that aside, all we have right now is a relegation fight, an expensive squad most of whom have little resale value, a continued managerial merry-go-round, no top 6 finish ever and if it wasn't for ND's vision no assets for EM to finance his incompetence.

If he leaves tomorrow what is his legacy? ND had plenty of faults, made plenty of mistakes but we continue to benefit from his vision.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
It's based on a great deal more than that...your willingness to turn a blindeye to morality is your own choice. Aye idiotic, ND was cleaning up a mess caused by the worst owners in the history of the club who were nothing better than asset strippers.

Leaving that aside, all we have right now is a relegation fight, an expensive squad most of whom have little resale value, a continued managerial merry-go-round, no top 6 finish ever and if it wasn't for ND's vision no assets for EM to finance his incompetence.

If he leaves tomorrow what is his legacy? ND had plenty of faults, made plenty of mistakes but we continue to benefit from his vision.
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So you actually have the smoking gun which will make the prosecution of EM a formality?

What are you waiting for?

Hand it over immediately and let the trial begin.

I appreciate I will never ever reach your levels of morality but I find it a bit rich for you to claim that I turn a blind eye to it; which aspects am I falling down on?

No, there was no relegation fight under ND; they just capitulated and went straight down; the managerial merry go round was just as bad, if not worse - Platt, Megson and Kinnear ffs, resale values did not matter to ND as he let contracts run down and the players leave for fuck all, and the transfer strategy was run by a panel which included ND, Mark Arthur and that bell end Pelling, remember them?

But then again, they were serious about promotion, are you?
 
mao tse tung said:
So you actually have the smoking gun which will make the prosecution of EM a formality?

What are you waiting for?

Hand it over immediately and let the trial begin.

I appreciate I will never ever reach your levels of morality but I find it a bit rich for you to claim that I turn a blind eye to it; which aspects am I falling down on?

No, there was no relegation fight under ND; they just capitulated and went straight down; the managerial merry go round was just as bad, if not worse - Platt, Megson and Kinnear ffs, resale values did not matter to ND as he let contracts run down and the players leave for fuck all, and the transfer strategy was run by a panel which included ND, Mark Arthur and that bell end Pelling, remember them?

But then again, they were serious about promotion, are you?
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Didn't actually answer the question lol

Read it and try again.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
It's based on a great deal more than that...your willingness to turn a blindeye to morality is your own choice. Aye idiotic, ND was cleaning up a mess caused by the worst owners in the history of the club who were nothing better than asset strippers.

Leaving that aside, all we have right now is a relegation fight, an expensive squad most of whom have little resale value, a continued managerial merry-go-round, no top 6 finish ever and if it wasn't for ND's vision no assets for EM to finance his incompetence.

If he leaves tomorrow what is his legacy? ND had plenty of faults, made plenty of mistakes but we continue to benefit from his vision.
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With respect - the academy was actually in place before ND, it just wasn't called the 'ND Academy' - pretty much all clubs of Forest's size/stature had a youth system to act as a conveyor belt for the first team.

Granted, ND took it to a much higher level by investing therein, but Paul Hart deserves much credit too.

To be fair (most notably because they all see the value therein) Fawaz also invested in the academy & the latest regime have again taken it up a notch (seeking to attain Cat 1) - under the stewardship of Gary Brazil & Co.

All owners and regimes have their faults, some worse than others - but, had ND not sadly passed away - would he be held in such high esteem?

That's not meant to criticise him, his family or his legacy - just merely asking the question.
 
Our Kids Dad said:
With respect - the academy was actually in place before ND, it just wasn't called the 'ND Academy' - pretty much all clubs of Forest's size/stature had a youth system to act as a conveyor belt for the first team.

Granted, ND took it to a much higher level by investing therein, but Paul Hart deserves much credit too.

To be fair (most notably because they all see the value therein) Fawaz also invested in the academy & the latest regime have again taken it up a notch (seeking to attain Cat 1) - under the stewardship of Gary Brazil & Co.

All owners and regimes have their faults, some worse than others - but, had ND not sadly passed away - would he be held in such high esteem?

That's not meant to criticise him, his family or his legacy - just merely asking the question.
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I dont think he's particularly held in high esteem, I think when he passed there was a realisation that for all his faults he was a forest fan who cared about the club.

Also I didn't bring him up, someone was using ND as an example to justify EM'S reign of terror...
 
Calvin Plummer said:
I dont think he's particularly held in high esteem, I think when he passed there was a realisation that for all his faults he was a forest fan who cared about the club.

Also I didn't bring him up, someone was using ND as an example to justify EM'S reign of terror...
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Justify, lol

The word you was really looking for was compare.

reign of terror; travelling to Southend, Colchester, Yeovil and Oldham when Megson was in charge was the epitome of terror.

But the club was quite clearly serious about promotion at the time, and so was I
 
mao tse tung said:
Justify, lol

The word you was really looking for was compare.

reign of terror; travelling to Southend, Colchester, Yeovil and Oldham when Megson was in charge was the epitome of terror.

But the club was quite clearly serious about promotion at the time, and so was I
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Remind me how many times we've hit the top 3 under EM? Hell how about the top 6?
 
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