Iraq - Did my son die in vain
- Thread starter The Fear
- Start date
RosettaStoned
Vital Football Legend
I can probably answer this ahead of time.
a) yes he did, he was a pawn in an incredibly horrific argument between large corporations fighting over the ownership of outdated energy sources.
or
b) No. but probably yes.
a) yes he did, he was a pawn in an incredibly horrific argument between large corporations fighting over the ownership of outdated energy sources.
or
b) No. but probably yes.
Pride of Lions
I am now official
That is always a possibility Americans, being a trigger happy culture there it's a case of shoot first, ask questions later.........
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
In the last Jack Reacher book I read he talked about how America hadn't fought a war worth fighting since WW2. I'd say the Falklands was worth fighting but since then?
I have a lot of sympathy for squaddies now-a-days, they sign up to serve their country and end up serving corporate greed. There can't be much job satisfaction killing people who are trying to defend their country and natural resources from predators.
I have a lot of sympathy for squaddies now-a-days, they sign up to serve their country and end up serving corporate greed. There can't be much job satisfaction killing people who are trying to defend their country and natural resources from predators.
Bikini Inspector
Vital Football Hero
A) http://www.enn.com/enn_original_news/article/44679
B) They are negotiating with them to let them be part of the govt anyway.
C) Karzai is not there because he was democratically elected, he is there because his brother was the biggest opium dealer in Afghanistan. Before they killed him. Karzai also recently revealed the US is working with the taliban to stage attacks in order to keep troops in the country.
D) That opium trade is very lucrative. Along with all of the drug money they are laundering through the banks.
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
Not sure why or how this has drifted to Afghanistan, ake the un-winnable war. The thread title is ever so clear. Iraq :5:
The programme. Made for depressing, albeit not surprising, watching.
I think it is fairly, surely, accepted now that it was started illegally? If they had had the mandate to remove the devil in charge, then fine, but they didn't. We were, in my humble, lied to.
The deaths are in the hands of the liars.
The futility of these deaths, on both sides, is extremely sad. The sacrifices the forces make are amazing, for those sacrifices to be in vain and their deaths / mutilations for no gain or good reason is in-comprehensively sad as far as I am concerned.
I had to fast forward the personal family parts filmed at home, just concentrated on the dad in Iraq and the responses from the Iraqi's.
The sad thing is we never seem to learn.
We upset the apple cart, THEN we leave a power vaccuum.
The locals said the times under Saddam were awful, they'd be put in prison for no reason, tortured, disappear etc.
So we COULD have gone in and made a real difference. But no, we blundered in and then left.
As they said, the forces (again, total clarity, this isn't the majority of the forces at fault, albeit sounds like a few did very very bad things it is the politicians ... the puppet masters in effect) came in, removed Saddam, and spread the chaos.
Could have been so different. Get in, remove the devil, straight away get in there with the back up for humanitarian and simple logistics, improve the lives of the population and hey presto, you've helped a very unstable part of the Middle East and also illustrated to other countries within the middle East that we aren't there to be bad etc.
1 in 3 still don't have water was the one fact. Unbelievable.
Also unbelievable the terrorist attacks are still happening, there is a very weak government etc. The wealth in the oil fields and yet the poverty and mess is beyond our comprehension.
All in all, just yet another sad indication of how stupid man is.
As one Iraqi said when the British soldiers dad was crying, 'we are all humans, when he cries, I want to cry'.
Stupid species.
The programme. Made for depressing, albeit not surprising, watching.
I think it is fairly, surely, accepted now that it was started illegally? If they had had the mandate to remove the devil in charge, then fine, but they didn't. We were, in my humble, lied to.
The deaths are in the hands of the liars.
The futility of these deaths, on both sides, is extremely sad. The sacrifices the forces make are amazing, for those sacrifices to be in vain and their deaths / mutilations for no gain or good reason is in-comprehensively sad as far as I am concerned.
I had to fast forward the personal family parts filmed at home, just concentrated on the dad in Iraq and the responses from the Iraqi's.
The sad thing is we never seem to learn.
We upset the apple cart, THEN we leave a power vaccuum.
The locals said the times under Saddam were awful, they'd be put in prison for no reason, tortured, disappear etc.
So we COULD have gone in and made a real difference. But no, we blundered in and then left.
As they said, the forces (again, total clarity, this isn't the majority of the forces at fault, albeit sounds like a few did very very bad things it is the politicians ... the puppet masters in effect) came in, removed Saddam, and spread the chaos.
Could have been so different. Get in, remove the devil, straight away get in there with the back up for humanitarian and simple logistics, improve the lives of the population and hey presto, you've helped a very unstable part of the Middle East and also illustrated to other countries within the middle East that we aren't there to be bad etc.
1 in 3 still don't have water was the one fact. Unbelievable.
Also unbelievable the terrorist attacks are still happening, there is a very weak government etc. The wealth in the oil fields and yet the poverty and mess is beyond our comprehension.
All in all, just yet another sad indication of how stupid man is.
As one Iraqi said when the British soldiers dad was crying, 'we are all humans, when he cries, I want to cry'.
Stupid species.
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
I'd imagine that as soon as the British and American troops leave Afghanistan, the Taliban will take over again. I'm not sure how strong their support is amongst the general population but from reading the reports, the Taliban in Afghanistan seem very similar to the Viet Cong in Vietnam.
According to the Daily Mail, Heroin production in Afghanistan is up 3,135% since the invasion. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102158/Heroin-production-Afghanistan-RISEN-61.html
That seems an absolutely incredible figure for a country which was invaded with one of the expressed purposes being to destroy the production of heroin.
I'm sure that a skeptical mind would think that the CIA are milking this 'unwinnable war' for the drug money.
Going back to the original point, do you think that the wars against Iraq and Afghanistan were justified?
The Fear
A Wise Man (once sat next to him)
The Iraq one COULD have become justified but as usual, the politicians fucked it up.
To fuck up one and then enter an area known to be unwinnable was baffling.
That said, we and the US are major arms traders, makes you wonder.
What is wrong is that the troops know this one is futile, read a great article in esquire or gq not long back with anon quotes from soldiers. 95% of them said it was futile and that the Taliban will be straight back in.
To fuck up one and then enter an area known to be unwinnable was baffling.
That said, we and the US are major arms traders, makes you wonder.
What is wrong is that the troops know this one is futile, read a great article in esquire or gq not long back with anon quotes from soldiers. 95% of them said it was futile and that the Taliban will be straight back in.
Bikini Inspector
Vital Football Hero
This video sums up the iraq war,9/11, afghanistan and everything else. You can probably boil it down to haliburton, Oil , cheney and rumsfeld. Blair just tagged us along so he could play the statesman.
[youtube=fZNvSX3A7pc]
[youtube=fZNvSX3A7pc]
D
Deleted member 313
Guest
Indeed, so why sign up knowing you are simply cannon fodder for the politico-corporate system? Serve their country my arse.
BodyButter
Vital Football Legend
It's awful just reading that.
I wouldn't criticise anyone's decision to join the Army. It's a great way to make something of yourself if other options aren't available but everyone knows the risks.
I know quite a few on here have served. It would be interesting to get their take on this.
