Immigration

BBJ

Father Of The Forum
Fifty years ago, I emigrated from Northern Ireland to England. Some may feel that using the word "emigrated" is a bit over-the-top. After all, I was just moving from one part of the United Kingdom to another. The language, accents notwithstanding, was the same. The cars drove on the left hand side of the road (as God had clearly intended). We had the same TV programmes (with slight regional variations). There were many more similarities than differences.
Yet, it felt to me as though I were emigrating. I didn't really want to do it (in spite of having my parents and a sister living in Birmingham). I felt I needed to because there were so few decent jobs in Belfast. I got on the Heysham ferry on that Saturday night in October and my heart was heavy. I felt so homesick as the boat sailed out of the port, down Belfast Lough into the Irish Sea.
Actually, it was one of the best things I ever did. It broadened my mind and in spite of a lot of casual racism in the 1960s and 1970s (not nearly so much nowadays), I came to understand that, for all its faults, England was (is) a great country.
My future wife and I met in 1966, were married in London two years later, and, during our seven years in Redditch, we were blessed with three of our six children.
Most Irish emigrants have the idea that they'll return home someday. Very few, comparatively speaking, get the opportunity but we did and we moved to Dublin in 1979. Obviously, Ireland has many failings too but it I think that turned out to be good for us.
Now, of course, we've returned to England for what is a very special chapter in our lives and I do know one thing for sure; when the time comes (next autumn) to return to Dublin, after this almost five year stint in Lancashire, there are likely to be more than a few tears shed.
So emigration worked for me and I hope that my immigration worked for England. I was fortunate enough, during my paid working life always to have had a job, so hope that I made some sort of contribution to society.
But it was not easy to begin with. For the first several months, I was really quite lonely. I was living in Oxford and, every Friday night, I headed to Birmingham to spend the weekend with the folks (and see the Villa when they were at home).
I think that for immigration to be successful, the incomer needs to adopt a "when in Rome" attitude (whilst still being true to her/himself). It was okay to go to the "Harp" on Walford Road on a Saturday night but it would not have been okay to have stuck a petrol bomb on the forecourt of Smith's Imperial Coaches.
The host community (whoever they are!) needs to be prepared to "move up in the bed".
I thought this article in yesterday's IRISH TIMES was very good.
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/generation-emigration/i-felt-my-irishness-was-dissolving-as-the-years-passed-1.2021596?utm_source=morning-digest&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=digests
 
Immigrants bring much to the country I think. I like being multicultural and have liked most cultures that I've met and dealt with.

 
swings and round abouts john in my opinion. Some immigrants come here on the basis to work - as they were in the same position as what you were in (jobs etc). I have employed many immigrants (legal) from Africa as they need to work in this country , to send money back to Africa for the upkeep their family. That to me is fair enough. These kind of immigrants will come to this country and do the jobs that SOME lazy arsed benefit scrounging idiot you see on the Jeremy Kyle show wont do.

Then the other type of immigrant will come here to just claim the benefits...

I like your story John and glad it has happy parts in it :)
 
Yes I agree with our mighty leader.

I am lucky enough mainly through playing sport to have made friends from a lot of different cultures and religions and have had many conversations and discussions about them. I can even swear in Urdu as well !!
The bottom line is that there is good and bad in every walk of life , no matter what colour, creed or religion they are from.
 
immigration also played a very big part in the war I believe - thousands of Sikhs fought for these waters.
 
The Polish girl who lives in an apartment near my gaff has the nicest bum I've ever seen as well.

Another important consideration.
 
Barney2004 - 2/12/2014 10:05

immigration also played a very big part in the war I believe - thousands of Sikhs fought for these waters.

Defo i was amazed and took back when in recent times learning this, and the Polish Aircraft fighters helping protect our country from zee germans, this is a great point.
 
Well if it was upto me i would say no more male immigrants,,,,then only certain looking fit women was allowed in then parteeeea away, vote Clive :139:
 
Barney2004 - 2/12/2014 09:54

swings and round abouts john in my opinion. Some immigrants come here on the basis to work - as they were in the same position as what you were in (jobs etc). I have employed many immigrants (legal) from Africa as they need to work in this country , to send money back to Africa for the upkeep their family. That to me is fair enough. These kind of immigrants will come to this country and do the jobs that SOME lazy arsed benefit scrounging idiot you see on the Jeremy Kyle show wont do.

Then the other type of immigrant will come here to just claim the benefits...

I like your story John and glad it has happy parts in it :)

I am not going to repeat what Barney has said, however Barney has summed it up perfectly for me :1: :1: :1:

We are a very multi cultured family and have many friends of others cultures also. What Barney says.

Plus I will add this: When we went out to Canada to see my Daughter son in law etc. for the first time, talking to Darcy he could not get over we had 66 million people in this country. British Columbia where they live you could put The U.K into B.C 100 times over and the whole population of Canada is only 33 million.

We are fit to busting and here by lies the problem. You can take another country off us for all the countryside and we are all fitted into an even smaller space.

I hear what you say about you immigration here BBJ. I get that from your personal perspective, however for me Ireland is just a part of The U.K so it doesn't count to me as immigration
 
ClivetheVillan - 2/12/2014 11:00

Well if it was upto me i would say no more male immigrants,,,,then only certain looking fit women was allowed in then parteeeea away, vote Clive :139:

Um Clive, we will need some footballers in from abroad at some stage so I think you better quantify that :15: Mind you we could ban them for all other clubs until we sort ourselves out :19:
 
kefkat - 2/12/2014 11:07

Barney2004 - 2/12/2014 09:54

swings and round abouts john in my opinion. Some immigrants come here on the basis to work - as they were in the same position as what you were in (jobs etc). I have employed many immigrants (legal) from Africa as they need to work in this country , to send money back to Africa for the upkeep their family. That to me is fair enough. These kind of immigrants will come to this country and do the jobs that SOME lazy arsed benefit scrounging idiot you see on the Jeremy Kyle show wont do.

Then the other type of immigrant will come here to just claim the benefits...

I like your story John and glad it has happy parts in it :)

Barney has summed it up perfectly for me :1: :1: :1:

I do have my uses sometimes lol
 
kefkat - 2/12/2014 11:10

ClivetheVillan - 2/12/2014 11:00

Well if it was upto me i would say no more male immigrants,,,,then only certain looking fit women was allowed in then parteeeea away, vote Clive :139:

Um Clive, we will need some footballers in from abroad at some stage so I think you better quantify that :15: Mind you we could ban them for all other clubs until we sort ourselves out :19:

I don't think i thought this through you know :19:
 
ClivetheVillan - 2/12/2014 11:11

kefkat - 2/12/2014 11:10

ClivetheVillan - 2/12/2014 11:00

Well if it was upto me i would say no more male immigrants,,,,then only certain looking fit women was allowed in then parteeeea away, vote Clive :139:

Um Clive, we will need some footballers in from abroad at some stage so I think you better quantify that :15: Mind you we could ban them for all other clubs until we sort ourselves out :19:

I don't think i thought this through you know :19:

You sound like a politician in the making, as neither do they :15: So we would need a codicil to that, with besides footballers on :19:
 
My Dad drives me to despair. He constantly goes on about the number of immigrants in the country and how they are taking over. It shouldn't be allowed and none of them work etc, etc.


Oh and he lives in Thailand! He never quite gets the irony of what he is saying even though I do remind him on a regular basis. Young Thais going look at that old white bloke - we should send them back to their own country.
 
kefkat - 2/12/2014 11:07

I hear what you say about you immigration here BBJ. I get that from your personal perspective, however for me Ireland is just a part of The U.K so it doesn't count to me as immigration

Well, to be precise, Northern Ireland is part of the UK. As for the Republic (which is where we have our home), I've always thought of it being a neighbouring country, not a foreign one.
 
No, it doesn't work. Good thread by the way BBJ, I enjoyed reading the little life story. However the key to all it is - you used England for your own needs. You said yourself - (1)you left with a heavy heart, it was sad day etc but you needed a job. And (2) you said you endured a little racism. So there you go, 2 very good reasons why immigration doesn't work.

1, There is no place like home. Even the Africans that escape awful conditions, still miss their Mother homeland. And they only really come here because England provides them with a better life - this until their Mother land improves. So BBJ earns all his money in England only for the wish to return to Dublin and then spend it all...Great news for Ireland and hard luck England - But thanks anyway.

And this why England suffers. Because too much money is leaving the country. Many others do the same, they earn here and send it home. Or they save it up and then leave to go back and spend it all in their homeland. - Whilst people have a connection to a piece of soil, then immigration will never work. The only way it works is for people to treat each country as one place all joined together. Earth as one "I am born on Earth type thing"..In other words you don't have an affiliation with a set country(piece of soil).

2, Racism is rife throughout the world & this is because we are all born racists. If we come from apes - then just observe their lifestyle. They live in groups - if one group gets too close to the other, a fight breaks out. So if we are an ape species, then it is a huge possibility that we too live in groups & will defend, or have a stronger bond towards that group. And if you have a stronger bond towards "your" own group(naturally), then that makes you racist towards the other group(s).
 
Green Tea,
Just a guess,but I reckon BBJ might have spent a few quid on shopping,houses,cars,petrol,drinks,eating out,going to the Villa etc etc while he was living here,thus contributing to the economy,whilst paying his taxes.

I could be wrong,and like I say...it`s just a guess.

 
Clubpaver - 2/12/2014 15:26

Green Tea,
Just a guess,but I reckon BBJ might have spent a few quid on shopping,houses,cars,petrol,drinks,eating out,going to the Villa etc etc while he was living here,thus contributing to the economy,whilst paying his taxes.

I could be wrong,and like I say...it`s just a guess.

Green Tea - have you read my post in this thread? or did you read what BBJ put and then scrolled to the bottom of the page to spout off?
 
I think most immigrants are ok... except for the brown ones.

That's supposed to be funny, but the sad thing is some people actually think like that though they'd never admit it.
 
Clubpaver - Never said he didn't..But his affiliation was always with Ireland. The English clan homed him, supported him, cared for him, he could raise his family, used the facilities, have a job and a life here but in the end Ireland gains. The English clan was used and abused, thank you maam it was a pleasure but now I'm going home to the country I love.