ifollow / ST query | Page 2 | Vital Football

ifollow / ST query

SteveTreacle

Vital Squad Member
#21
Multiple ST holders at one address is an issue but no one planned for a lockdown when the tickets were sold. As a bit of PR the club could identify multi season ticket households and send some merchandise as a gesture.

Not a perfect solution but its a far from perfect situation
I would have been happy for me and my son (at the same address) to get a code each to give us the opportunity to both watch the match. Of course, we both watch the match together usually, but it could be that I'm out/away and we may need separate codes. The club have only been sending one code. I queries this by email and was told I needed to provide a separate email address for my son (he's 8 so hasn't got his own). I provided a second email address for him and got an out of the blue call from the club last week requesting a second email address for him, which I provided again, yet only one code turned up to my usual email address last week. It didn't really affect us as we were both at home and saw the match, but the club does itself no favours time and time again getting very simple issues, whether it be ticketing, merchandise or in this case online access to matches wrong.

It's also been mentioned elsewhere that Scally is talking about how budgets are tight for us (and understandably so), so why is the clubshop full of last season's merchandise sitting there shut? Why not get a small number of staff in and sell off last season's merchandise reduced, half price etc online and raise some funds? Why not cash in and get some facemasks made and available for order? I wanted to get a GFC poppy 2020 pin badge - I got a 2019 last year - to help the poppy appeal. British legion are doing an array of them online for almost all football league clubs - a number smaller and/or in a more precarious predicament than us. I contacted the online poppy shop and asked why there were no GFC ones. All they needed was simple permission from each club to produce and sell them and they had contacted all clubs and made them available for the clubs that responded. My guess is that we didn't bother. It's a minor thing, but another example of us just not getting the very simple things right.
 

LockdownLife

Vital Reserves Team
#22
Based on no data at all - I would suspect that the economics of opening the megastore don't stack up. Presumably the vast vast majority of sales occur on matchday and without those it's not worth taking them off furlough.

You could potentially have someone come in once a week and ship out online orders. Although then I'm sure people will just complain delivery is slow.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#25
It's also been mentioned elsewhere that Scally is talking about how budgets are tight for us (and understandably so), so why is the clubshop full of last season's merchandise sitting there shut?
I’m sure Scally appreciates advice.

My guess is the shop doesn’t make any money. Turnover last year was £140k. Take off staff costs, cost of merchandise etc, I guess it is loss making - hence why Scally is talking about concession stalls on match days.
 
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alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#26
The shop doesn’t make any money.

Turnover last year was £140k.

Take off staff costs, cost of merchandise etc, I guess it is loss making - hence why Scally is talking about concession stalls on match days.
Loss making?

Say they have 2 full time staff there, on probably something no more than 15k a year. Then supplement that with a few matchday staff. Say your staff costs end up about 40k max? They won't have 'rent' to pay.

Then have you seen the quality of the goods they sell? It's all brought in from Sri Lanka or something isnt it? No doubt bought in for pounds/pennies. With a huge mark up. I'd be surprised if we didnt make more than 80k a year profit. While it's not ground breaking, that's a good enough chunk and not bad ROI, is it?

I would say though, that they probably estimate they'll sell just as much by doing an online shop as well as matchday only kiosks. I would imagine they want to use the space for something else which will turn a profit too.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#28
Based on no data at all - I would suspect that the economics of opening the megastore don't stack up. Presumably the vast vast majority of sales occur on matchday and without those it's not worth taking them off furlough.

You could potentially have someone come in once a week and ship out online orders. Although then I'm sure people will just complain delivery is slow.
Oops. I missed your post. Echo your comments.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#29
Loss making?

Say they have 2 full time staff there, on probably something no more than 15k a year. Then supplement that with a few matchday staff. Say your staff costs end up about 40k max? They won't have 'rent' to pay.

Then have you seen the quality of the goods they sell? It's all brought in from Sri Lanka or something isnt it? No doubt bought in for pounds/pennies. With a huge mark up. I'd be surprised if we didnt make more than 80k a year profit. While it's not ground breaking, that's a good enough chunk and not bad ROI, is it?

I would say though, that they probably estimate they'll sell just as much by doing an online shop as well as matchday only kiosks. I would imagine they want to use the space for something else which will turn a profit too.
Add pensions, Employer National Insurance, Apprenticeship Levy, training etc in to staff costs.

I thought most of the kit was supplied by Macron now rather than being directly sourced by Gills Leisure. Much of the mark-up would be taken by Macron.

Heating, lighting, insurance (higher because of holding huge stock on premises), cleaning, maintenance.

Cost of making the shop COVID safe with installation of screens / reformatting shop floor.

Leasing cost of tills / display racks and merchant charges for electronic transactions.

Cost of returns and obsolete stock write-off are big cost for retail sector.

Marketing costs, depreciation of fixtures and fittings.

IT / telephony cost. Postage for deliveries.

There might not be any incremental rent cost but perhaps Scally feels he can get a better return by repurposing the space.
 
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Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#31
It should be about more than just making a profit, surely it's also there to raise the profile of the club.
How does it raise the profile of the club?

I can see that argument if the shop was located away from Redfern Avenue in a place with high footfall. Maybe that would entice the odd new fan and raise the profile with non-supporters.

Even still - I cannot see the commercials working on that sort of set-up.
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#32
How does it raise the profile of the club?

I can see that argument if the shop was located away from Redfern Avenue in a place with high footfall. Maybe that would entice the odd new fan and raise the profile with non-supporters.

Even still - I cannot see the commercials working on that sort of set-up.
Trashbat - i hope you copied and pasted that from some accountant's spreadsheet, as otherwise you've probably wasted a fair bit of time. Most of those items you've mentioned are either very small/negligible, or wont be removed by replacing the megastore with other, smaller stores. I wont go into detail to discuss each one but i think you need to consider that those amounts are will be small. You seem to be arguing against the club shop actually being profitable at all, a rather odd conclusion IMO. I do not believe at all that the club shop itself is not profit making. If that were the case, it would have been closed years ago.

The point though that you seem to have missed is that Scally clearly thinks he can make just as much money by opening only online (with a new website he stated) and on matchdays. That is a very key point. I think it's even a very valid argument. If someone wants a shirt, they will most likely just wait until the next game to get it, or get it online if it's needed urgently. I dont see many lost sales because of not having the physical shop available on non-matchdays.

You've also then almost literally quoted my own point, in that they would use the megastore space for something else which might make more money/or just use the space better.

Those two are the main and only real points here IMO.

I think the point about raising the profile of the club, related more to the sale of kit/merchandise - and fans wearing it across kent etc., rather than having a megastore itself. Of course that does raise the profile of the club, but it's a rather intangible benefit, i also dont think the club would run the club shop at a loss, just to realise this benefit when there's other options (online and matchday).
 
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Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#33
Trashbat - i hope you copied and pasted that from some accountant's spreadsheet, as otherwise you've probably wasted a fair bit of time. Most of those items you've mentioned are either very small/negligible, or wont be removed by replacing the megastore with other, smaller stores. I wont go into detail to discuss each one but i think you need to consider that those amounts are will be small. You seem to be arguing against the club shop actually being profitable at all, a rather odd conclusion IMO. I do not believe at all that the club shop itself is not profit making. If that were the case, it would have been closed years ago.

The point though that you seem to have missed is that Scally clearly thinks he can make just as much money by opening only online (with a new website he stated) and on matchdays. That is a very key point. I think it's even a very valid argument. If someone wants a shirt, they will most likely just wait until the next game to get it, or get it online if it's needed urgently. I dont see many lost sales because of not having the physical shop available on non-matchdays.

You've also then almost literally quoted my own point, in that they would use the megastore space for something else which might make more money/or just use the space better.

Those two are the main and only real points here IMO.

I think the point about raising the profile of the club, related more to the sale of kit/merchandise - and fans wearing it across kent etc., rather than having a megastore itself. Of course that does raise the profile of the club, but it's a rather intangible benefit, i also dont think the club would run the club shop at a loss, just to realise this benefit when there's other options (online and matchday).
Really? Back of fag packet P&L, figures in £k. Sure they’ll be other costs too. A lot of it will come down to the retail mark-up, but I think 100% is typical.

Sales 140k
Cost of sales 70k (assumes 100% mark-up)
Obsolete stock write off £5k
Staff costs £50k (inc ERNI / pension / apprenticeship levy)
Banking £4k (merchant charges)
Telephony and IT £1k
Depreciation £4K (fit out costs Of £20k over 5yrs)
Insurance £2k
Marketing £5k
 

alphabet_king

Vital 1st Team Regular
#37
Really? Back of fag packet P&L, figures in £k. Sure they’ll be other costs too. A lot of it will come down to the retail mark-up, but I think 100% is typical.

Sales 140k
Cost of sales 70k (assumes 100% mark-up)
Obsolete stock write off £5k
Staff costs £50k (inc ERNI / pension / apprenticeship levy)
Banking £4k (merchant charges)
Telephony and IT £1k
Depreciation £4K (fit out costs Of £20k over 5yrs)
Insurance £2k
Marketing £5k
What i find best about these calculations is that you genuinely believe scally puts 5k in to marketing the club shop? i would be surprised if the clubs budget is that overall, let alone for the club shop.

Then only a 100% mark up? haha yeah alright then.
 

Trashbat

Vital Squad Member
#38
What i find best about these calculations is that you genuinely believe scally puts 5k in to marketing the club shop? i would be surprised if the clubs budget is that overall, let alone for the club shop.

Then only a 100% mark up? haha yeah alright then.
I’ve never actually been in the shop, but I presume that they have posters that need to be designed and printed / headed note paper / branded labelling for pricing up items / product magazine / end of isle promotion stands / branded plastic carrier bags / branded wrapping paper etc. I also presume that they have a website that needs to be maintained and updated periodically. Also the shop branding would be amortised. So yes - £5k seems reasonable to me. Either way, it doesn’t materially change the picture one way or the other whether it’s £2k or £5k.

100% mark-up is typical for premium sports brands. What makes you think differently? For £50 replica shirts the value chain looks like this which is consistent with my assumption.

VAT = £8
Cost of production and shipping = £5
Shirt supplier (Macron) profit = £15
Club shop profit = £22

But I’ll still humour you. Let’s say it’s 200% mark-up. That’ll only take cost of sales down to £47k. It’s not going to flip the argument.

On the flip side, I’d argue that £5k for obsolete stock write-off is massively under estimated. We know Scally was flogging unsold old replica shirts as an incentive a little while back. So there’s little doubt that the club shop has a high amount of obsolete stock.

Then there’s bound to be a stack of other costs that I’ve missed like heating and lighting and I didn’t even get started on any ‘inter company’ transfers that you’d see in the management accounts for things like external audit, accountancy and bookkeeping, rent, rates etc.

I can’t see how the club shop would make any money.
 
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#39
For me a £10 pass does not cut it. I believe my ST works out at about £13 a game.

I'm going to ring the club tomorrow and ask about a refund for my two year ticket.

Yet the club are pondering buying a player - i thought we were short of money and may go bust by xmas without crowds?
Good
To be honest I am surprised that you think a refund might even be an option on the table. Have you read that anywhere ?

Personally I think free Ifollow is fair compensation for my season ticket. There are a few issues with the reliability of the platform, including people being charged when they shouldn't, but other than that it gives us better access than RK or following on twitter.

Scallys very late communication a while back didn't really cover refunds other than he said I am grateful to those who allowed the club to survive by buying season tickets. He added I am considering how to recognise them at some point in the future but he totally swerved any ST refund process

If you want one then you might need to phone the ticket office direct and see what they say.

I wouldn't expect a good outcome though, not unless you are prepared to look at the clubs legal requirements for non supply of goods or services that you have paid for.
I have been charged £45 when using the I follow code. Having not completed last season and paying for this years season ticket this is a step too far. I have tried phoning the club but there is no answer does anyone know how I can contact them by phone as messaging them has not worked.