If this happens... | Page 2 | Vital Football

If this happens...

shotshy

Vital 1st Team Regular
#21
The FA should dictate the agenda but choose not to.
Simply by threatening to withdraw affiliation would focus minds.
Imagine a PL that could not compete in FA or EFL cup competitions.
What about a PL that could not supply players to the FA run England squad.
Would the PL have any power or influence in isolation of English football?
Radical but would certainly start a serious conversation.
 

jogills

Vital 1st Team Regular
#22
I can't argue with that shotshy but we also need to keep our eyes on the main prize, the continued survival of our sort of football. B teams, feeder clubs and the rest would represent a capitulation. Pretty soon the club shop would be full of the higher club's gear and their sponsors would walk right in. A few years down the line you might just find the odd photagraph, or plaque acknowledging the old club.
 
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GillsBluenose

Vital 1st Team Regular
#23
Hopefully Electric car sales will start putting the boot in to Saudi Arabia's only big natural resource.

Everything about the leadership of that country stinks, but they are kept onside purely due to their ability to turn off the taps.

This approach clearly shows no understanding about local club loyalty, tradition and pride. Besides which, who would want to follow these "B" teams when all the supporters of the PL clubs can watch their best team?
 

jokerman

Vital 1st Team Regular
#24
It would seem that club loyalty, tradition and pride do not pay the bills, and have not paid them for awhile. The public good arguments plus $4.75 will get you a fair cup of coffee but not much else in these strenuous times. Insofar as anyone satisfies a public good, the Premiership comes a lot closer than us, except they don't need help.

Do we go for sustaining the pyramid by becoming farm teams and playing against farm teams, so that supporters, owners, and players alike can hang on to their respective versions of the dream of winning the lottery, or do we forget about most of the money and become community-based, locally-sourced, and competing regionally? I'm leaning to the latter. We've been living with lies about lower league professional football for years and now they're finally being brutally exposed.
 

Gills 58

Vital 1st Team Regular
#25
There’s no doubt that Premier league is a superior product when compared to the EFL but it’s not my cup of tea.
I think that the issue is whether to retain the football pyramid or not.
The day that the PL broke away was the death knell which will ultimately end in a European super league, so most of the existing PL sides will be in effectively what is now the Championship.
I would not be too surprised if the European league didn’t have relegation, a bit like the NFL.
If you seriously look at the current situation across Europe, where is the competition?
France is all about PSG
Germany is Bayern
Spain is Real or Barca.
The U.K. is currently more diverse but ultimately it’s all about the money and the wealthy clubs dominate.

Maybe it’s time, like a lot of industries, to think outside the box and look for a new future for the sport.
Maybe if the FA grew a pair, things could improve.
Sadly, I agree with that.
 

Rob_b100

Vital Reserves Team
#26
The FA should dictate the agenda but choose not to.
Simply by threatening to withdraw affiliation would focus minds.
Imagine a PL that could not compete in FA or EFL cup competitions.
What about a PL that could not supply players to the FA run England squad.

Would the PL have any power or influence in isolation of English football?
Radical but would certainly start a serious conversation.
I’m not sure that would make a difference though would it?
Premier league clubs have treated the cups as an annoyance for years anyway. And as for the National team - Ferguson, Wenger etc used to pull their players out regularly, although clubs don’t seem to do it as much now, granted.

You still get the feeling that the PL club hierarchy see domestic cups and internationals as an unfortunate sideshow that takes away from the PL and European competitions where the real magic and money is. I think it can only get worse as more clubs end up “foreign owned”. Yet in some ways I’m not sure you can blame the owners can you? They get coerced into buying in due to the kudos and glamour of the PL and CL. Then realise that occasionally they have to slum it at Priestfield on a cold evening in January all cos we dug in for a lucky draw on 3rd round weekend.......
 

madrid_gill

Vital Squad Member
#27
I don't know - they have "reserve teams" in Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Bayern_Munich_II and Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Barcelona_B . In Spain, the reserve team must play 1 league below the first team
Not just promotion it affects either, it's also relegation. From memory, a few years ago Villarreal's first team got relegated from the 1st to the 2nd division, and as their B team was already in the 2nd division, they also had to be relegated (which was annoying for me, having backed the team who finished 4th from bottom to be relegated at 50/1 near the beginning of the season, only to see them saved by Villarreal B's enforced relegation).
 

madrid_gill

Vital Squad Member
#28
And as for the National team - Ferguson, Wenger etc used to pull their players out regularly, although clubs don’t seem to do it as much now, granted.
As you say, the clubs wouldn't care less, you'd like to think some of the players would, though. Premier League riches or less money, but the chance to keep playing for their country might create a bit of a dilemma in the minds of some players, at least.
 

LancsGordoRoad

Vital 1st Team Regular
#29
You've made the assumption that the newly structured lower leagues would have promotion, the premiership teams have been trying for some time to become totally elitist by stopping automatic promotion/relegation.

Good point, Nitram. I note, from a quick scan via Wikipedia, that there are eight Premier League clubs that have American ownership (right-out or part). In the USA`s top sports` leagues, the top divisions/leagues do NOT have any promotion or relegation - they are effectively a closed-shop. Some of the American owners of Prem teams also have ownership interests in North America sport teams - don`t be surprised to see the UK`s Premiership head in that direction - it`s already a protectionist racket.
 

Alderman Barnes

Vital Squad Member
#30
The reserves can play up to the third divison in Germany and the proper clubs absolutely hate it, first of all because the reserves don't draw any crowds or contribute any gate money, and secondly because they distort the competition by playing ringers as required.

English football's tradition and strength in depth is what makes it unique and the one thing that it can be most proud of. Once you start chipping at that it's gone forever, and then clubs like ours can pack up and go home.
 

markinkent

Vital 1st Team Regular
#32
The problem is the have and the have nots applies across the leagues . Yes, we should expect help from the premier league to ensure the EFL clubs survive but should everyone get help or should some of the owners invest a bit more of their own money?

Data taken from wikipedia so a question of accuracy but when you see the wealth of the owners +/- 20% error doesn't change the point :

Barnsley $9B
Bournemouth $2.5B
Stoke $3B
Huddersfield $475M
Norwich (mere peasants) at $30M


In our league :

Hull $325M
Gills - second hand water feature with rotating stone sphere
League below :

Salford : $2.5B
Grimsby: $18M


Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs
 

Gills 58

Vital 1st Team Regular
#33
The problem is the have and the have nots applies across the leagues . Yes, we should expect help from the premier league to ensure the EFL clubs survive but should everyone get help or should some of the owners invest a bit more of their own money?

Data taken from wikipedia so a question of accuracy but when you see the wealth of the owners +/- 20% error doesn't change the point :

Barnsley $9B
Bournemouth $2.5B
Stoke $3B
Huddersfield $475M
Norwich (mere peasants) at $30M


In our league :

Hull $325M
Gills - second hand water feature with rotating stone sphere
League below :

Salford : $2.5B
Grimsby: $18M


Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs
I note that the water feature is regarded as priceless.
 

SE1_Gills

Vital Squad Member
#36
The problem is the have and the have nots applies across the leagues . Yes, we should expect help from the premier league to ensure the EFL clubs survive but should everyone get help or should some of the owners invest a bit more of their own money?

Data taken from wikipedia so a question of accuracy but when you see the wealth of the owners +/- 20% error doesn't change the point :

Barnsley $9B
Bournemouth $2.5B
Stoke $3B
Huddersfield $475M
Norwich (mere peasants) at $30M


In our league :

Hull $325M
Gills - second hand water feature with rotating stone sphere
League below :

Salford : $2.5B
Grimsby: $18M


Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs
Re Hull- One of my family does business with the Allams, they might be listed as having loads of dough but trust me, none of it is going into the football club.
 

chris who

Vital Football Hero
#37
Many point to supermarkets "Asda wouldn't bail out Tesco argument".But unlike supermarkets lower league and non league football fans help fund the premier league. Unless fans have the guts to say enough is enough then more and more clubs will disappear.
 
#40
Some people go to Tesco AND Asda, funding both.

I’m disillusioned with Tesco management so have switched to Sainsbury‘s as I believe they’ll be top of the table soon. I only follow the best!