If the police can't tackle 'minor' crimes, how long before we take it upon ourselves? The Observer Nov 4, 2018 | Vital Football

If the police can't tackle 'minor' crimes, how long before we take it upon ourselves? The Observer Nov 4, 2018

Wayne.Kerr

Wayne.Kerr

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The article went on 'as private security firms proliferate, there's a danger we'll lose the rule of law'. Not only will we see a growth in security firms but far more worrying would be the growth of vigilanteism.

The police are trained and well versed in the rule of law; security firms far less so and, with a few exceptions, vigilantes act on impulse with little or no knowledge of, or worse, regard for the law.

It is a disaster waiting to happen.
 
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Society is really at a crossroads I fear. Police so under-resourced that they can't address all crimes, courts allowing criminals to walk (suspended sentences) due to overcrowding in the prisons.

I think it really is a matter of time before people start to protect themselves and their properties. I don't really agree with vigilantes but there is definitely a gap developing that the police simply can't fill.

More funding for the emergency services and the NHS is required but you can't see it under a Tory government.
 
The whole matter of funding is a very poor joke. The latest budget allowed for £240m to deal with potholes but nothing for policing.

Shows how low down the list of priorities policing is for the Tories doesn't it?

There was a copper on LBC last night who told a story about someone he had arrested for carrying a machete and a zombie knife in public. He was charged, went to trial and ended up getting a community order FFS. So much for tough on crime etc etc
 
Maybe if the police spent less money on sending in undercover officers to infiltrate non-violent political groups and establish relationships, sometimes sexual, with environmental activists, over a period of decades but leading to no convictions and no prevention of crime....

Just saying like.
 
Buddha said:
Maybe if the police spent less money on sending in undercover officers to infiltrate non-violent political groups and establish relationships, sometimes sexual, with environmental activists, over a period of decades but leading to no convictions and no prevention of crime....

Just saying like.
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Are you speaking first hand knowledge ?
Have you had a relationship with a police officer ?
 
Nobby_66 said:
The whole matter of funding is a very poor joke. The latest budget allowed for £240m to deal with potholes but nothing for policing.

Shows how low down the list of priorities policing is for the Tories doesn't it?

There was a copper on LBC last night who told a story about someone he had arrested for carrying a machete and a zombie knife in public. He was charged, went to trial and ended up getting a community order FFS. So much for tough on crime etc etc
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Sure it was a typo but £420m for potholes. Mrs May will argue that they are spending more per head on policing than ever before - she forgets police numbers have dropped drastically. While she's probably correct, she's lying through her teeth.
 
Buddha said:
Maybe if the police spent less money on sending in undercover officers to infiltrate non-violent political groups and establish relationships, sometimes sexual, with environmental activists, over a period of decades but leading to no convictions and no prevention of crime....

Just saying like.
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I don't disagree that there have been some unsavoury goings on but the thrust of this argument is the rise of security firms and, more alarmingly, we'll see more vigilante groups. Imagine the likes of VG and his mates sorting out grooming gangs without any regard for the law. In his eyes, anyone of Pakistani heritage is guilty and, therefore, easy pickings. We've seen in America how Trump is encouraging neo-nazi thugs; we don't want that here.
 
I do agree with you about right-wing vigilante groups but I'm no fan of the police either.

I'll remain silent for the rest of this thread
 
Buddha said:
I do agree with you about right-wing vigilante groups but I'm no fan of the police either.

I'll remain silent for the rest of this thread
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Despite my feelings on certain issues, I know who I would rather have to maintain law and order.
 
You appear worried Wayne?

Of course people will protect themselves and their communities. The police are stretched , and can't be everywhere , all of the time.

The majority believe Islam is a threat to the British way of life.

The majority also support the public catching paedos that use social media to groom children.

You're right to be worried
 
valenciagill said:
The majority also support the public catching paedos that use social media to groom children.
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The majority might but there is concern that those vigilantes whose aim is to identify paedophiles are not quite what they seem. This article spells out why and there are many more like it.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/internet-paedophile-vigilantes-doing-more-124399
valenciagill said:
You appear worried Wayne?
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Like many, I'm worried about the growth of extreme right wing groups; they're not here to stay but they will cause trouble while they're hanging around. I'd rather more money was given to police to cut crime and protect us rather than resort to vigilanteism. No doubt, the rise in right-wing groups will take up more police time, which they cannot afford to do.
 
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No, its a bit like the elder homosexual on TV recently who was punched and beaten, not for the first time, for being gay.
Being 'different' is supposed to be acceptable in our modern society, but there are people who still live in the past, whether they be homophobic or racist.
 
The problem is wider than the growth of extreme groups, it`s right across the board. Too many within our society are becoming more violent, more irresponsible, more agitated and less tolerant. There needs to be a big discussion, because those in political power repeatedly offer up excuse after meaningless excuse. They are reluctant to accept criticism and, following their convenient introduction of police and crime commissioners, have someone they can scapegoat and lay blame on. Theresa May (especially) and her cronies have a lot to answer for and at some time in the future their inadequacy will be clear for all to see.

People wealthy enough to live in private, select, gated groups of dwellings don`t have to worry so much. They can afford to pay out for private security to patrol their cosy neighbourhoods. Elsewhere, it`s quite probable that we shall, indeed, see a rise in vigilante groups and/or disreputable security firms, who will become less and less accountable.

I`m afraid that things will inevitably get worse before they get better. God help us if we have a major terrorist situation, especially outside of London, where most police resource is anchored. Policing is in crisis and many people are failing to get the type of service they deserve and expect. Dilute any large organisation and the quality of service dips; especially in a service which has seen huge cuts over many years.

Things are unlikely to get manifestly better until those in political power find the will to change, whether through self-analysis or as a result of massive public outrage. Police can`t do anymore, what you get with less, is less.
 
LancsGordoRoad said:
The problem is wider than the growth of extreme groups, it`s right across the board. Too many within our society are becoming more violent, more irresponsible, more agitated and less tolerant. There needs to be a big discussion, because those in political power repeatedly offer up excuse after meaningless excuse. They are reluctant to accept criticism and, following their convenient introduction of police and crime commissioners, have someone they can scapegoat and lay blame on. Theresa May (especially) and her cronies have a lot to answer for and at some time in the future their inadequacy will be clear for all to see.

People wealthy enough to live in private, select, gated groups of dwellings don`t have to worry so much. They can afford to pay out for private security to patrol their cosy neighbourhoods. Elsewhere, it`s quite probable that we shall, indeed, see a rise in vigilante groups and/or disreputable security firms, who will become less and less accountable.

I`m afraid that things will inevitably get worse before they get better. God help us if we have a major terrorist situation, especially outside of London, where most police resource is anchored. Policing is in crisis and many people are failing to get the type of service they deserve and expect. Dilute any large organisation and the quality of service dips; especially in a service which has seen huge cuts over many years.

Things are unlikely to get manifestly better until those in political power find the will to change, whether through self-analysis or as a result of massive public outrage. Police can`t do anymore, what you get with less, is less.
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You hit many nails on the head there. At present, we do see people expressing outrage but they think it's someone else's problem to deal with - a sort of nimby attitude. Then we have the huge differences between rural areas, provincial cities and inner cities; differences that are getting wider. Plus, we're seeing London drug gangs spreading their wings - Barrow being a target. To me, policing in crisis is a gross understatement in the sense that, if young kids can roam the streets never seeing a policeman, the chances of them turning to more serious crime increases. Parents have seemingly abrogated their responsibilities and many schools seem rudderless in the face of education cuts.

PS I live in a gated development but we don't have security patrols; we don't even have a perimeter fence - just a gate - so we're at the mercy of the nearby sheep.
 
The vigilantes are already here. They are on the internet.

1/. A group of ignorant dickheads build a cardboard Grenfell Tower to put on their bonfire. Only 10 people would have seen it but one of the dickheads puts it on Fbook. BBC pick it up and so millions now see it and are outraged demanding action. Police are involved and arrests are made but doubts emerge as to what actual criminal charges will hold up in court.
2/. Boss of Persimmon Homes declines to discuss a £75million bonus his board agreed to pay him in BBC interview. That becomes the only part of the interview that is used on prime time news. Outrage again and the guy is forced within days to resign after nearly 30 years working for the company.
3/. Editor of Waitrose Food mag sends jokey response about 'killing vegans' in response to a punter pitching vegan recipes to the mag. She shows response to a friend who shares it on Twitter etc and news channels pick it up. Mass outrage yet again and the guy loses his job.

Newsrooms lazily trawl social media to find the easy 'outraged and angry' stories to fill gaps on slow news days. But this is piling pressure on police and companies to act immediately. Not sure where it will all end up.
 
'Newsrooms lazily trawl social media to find the easy 'outraged and angry' stories to fill gaps on slow news days. But this is piling pressure on police and companies to act immediately. Not sure where it will all end up'

And the media wonder why less and less folk are finding them trustworthy !

There is lots of violence that doesn't get reported , in the interests of 'social cohesion'

The govt seem to be hoping for the best , whilst attempting to keep us in the dark.
 
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