I hate what the world is becoming | Page 40 | Vital Football

I hate what the world is becoming

Had to google the name, recognise her from Umbrella Academy.

Just looks like 1st world problems to me, and totally unnecessary and dare I say, somewhat borish... 'look me at me everyone.'

I am not that well educated on this side of life, so I stand to be corrected, recognise I could be wrong. There are people just looking to survive in life though, and I'm sure they would rather food and shelter than declaring a change of name, sex or indeed pronouns.
 
The Fear said:
Had to google the name, recognise her from Umbrella Academy.

Just looks like 1st world problems to me, and totally unnecessary and dare I say, somewhat borish... 'look me at me everyone.'

I am not that well educated on this side of life, so I stand to be corrected, recognise I could be wrong. There are people just looking to survive in life though, and I'm sure they would rather food and shelter than declaring a change of name, sex or indeed pronouns.
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The real problem I have is the having to address them by their pronouns. And I'm obviously not talking about ever meeting Ellen Page, but even referring to her I have to say HE or face a lecturing if I'm around certain people. Must correct my thinking for the sake of a small few.

I never knew such oppressed, marginalised groups could be so demanding.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
The real problem I have is the having to address them by their pronouns. And I'm obviously not talking about ever meeting Ellen Page, but even referring to her I have to say HE or face a lecturing if I'm around certain people. Must correct my thinking for the sake of a small few.

I never knew such oppressed, marginalised groups could be so demanding.
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Ah the pronoun debate rises again 😏
 
The Fear said:
Just looks like 1st world problems to me, and totally unnecessary and dare I say, somewhat borish... 'look me at me everyone.'
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I don't know anybody who is transgendered but the question I'd ask them is how does it make them feel to see someone with a profile or platform share an experience similar to you.

Thats the only perspective I can offer. Kamala Harris and Barrack Obama evoke feelings for some people within their minority groups.

Whether or not the cynics' view is correct, they will profit from this move. They will likely be cast in some sort of major transgender role and pull the opportunity from other actors who either are already known or never took that publicity route.

Who knows.

Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
The real problem I have is the having to address them by their pronouns. And I'm obviously not talking about ever meeting Ellen Page, but even referring to her I have to say HE or face a lecturing if I'm around certain people. Must correct my thinking for the sake of a small few.

I never knew such oppressed, marginalised groups could be so demanding.
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Assuming you mean making the mistake of saying their 'old' pronouns. You're either up against militant minded SJWs or your reaction might be evoking a response. You know the old saying SJH, when everyone is the arsehole its probably you haha.

Three things I've been corrected on in the last 6 months are (a) using the word retard, (b) saying someone is autistic and (c) something to do with disabilities. Apparently, retarded cant be used in any context whatsoever even if I referred to myself (which I clearly am at times). Some has autism they are not autistic and the last thing was something about able-bodied vs. disabled. You can't say disabled and the fact I cant recall the rest it shows the difficulty and why people need to give a little bit of an allowance.

All I know is the idea of a lot of this stuff is 'people first' lense and not defining anyone as anything other than a person. Gets squirrely with the pronouns but I think again the pronouns is part of the people-centric view and to get away from saying transgendered etc.

People fuck everything up and I am sure I am fucking this up too. For all the awareness and virtue some of these people have they are unable to use compassion and empathy for someone they see as in the wrong. Sometimes they dont even know what they're saying or why 'its just the right thing'.

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Off-topic but yesterday was a great example, we had a company focus group and the latinx girl in my group was put on the spot and asked what changes are needed for diversity and inclusion. My GF made a comment as she heard the question 'this is what they do they put us on the spot like its our thing to solve'. She actually wasnt able to answer the question to I jumped in.

I dont want to open the can of worms with the GF but surely if you're going to say diversity and inclusion are important but have no answer as to why or what can be done that has to be a problem. Its way too easy to put that on the problem of people who could solve but haven't been motivated to do anything about it to date. Thats where I take some issue with aspects social justice.

People want to help but they dont know but SJWs want those people to go and learn about first so they dont have to explain it. And I get why they dont because its painful and intimate and requires that person to remove their mask for a person who may still have theirs on.

Anyway its complicated but what I am saying is people say a lot of things without knowing why they say it. I am the way I am and say what I say and stand up for some of these things because I will most likely have a mixed race child, that child could be a girl and that child could be transgendered. They will be born into the developed world and aspects of our developed world are difficult for groups like I've outlined above.

Assuming you're talking about your friend you spoke about before. I assume she says whatever shit she says because she thinks its right and by extension shes right and it makes her a good person. Thats her "why" and I doubt she'll change until she can find a better reason.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
I don't know anybody who is transgendered but the question I'd ask them is how does it make them feel to see someone with a profile or platform share an experience similar to you.

Thats the only perspective I can offer. Kamala Harris and Barrack Obama evoke feelings for some people within their minority groups.

Whether or not the cynics' view is correct, they will profit from this move. They will likely be cast in some sort of major transgender role and pull the opportunity from other actors who either are already known or never took that publicity route.

Who knows.

...last 6 months are (a) using the word retard,
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I actually do. One better than the other. No fan of Greg Clarke but the more I read the more I understood - people of a generation have their words and insult isn't necessarily the meaning behind it. May have said before, I remember quite well 6/7ish, maybe slightly younger, but defending a mate who was called 'black'. I corrected to 'brown', mate agreed with me - history would tag me racist with the way phrases have changed. I also now understand my nan more as she cycles through all her children's names before she actually gets the right one for my old man on occasions. It's all ingrained patterns. I'm 41, I've been calling my kids by the wrong names for about 5 years when I'm not paying attention lol

When the one (don't know that well) made the decision and didn't hide it, I didn't know what to say and often fucked up going with 'what I'd known' before going generic 'she, he, it' in an attempt to be light hearted. Other one appreciates the fact I use the same routine because I'm at least acknowledging and trying not to be offensive and doesn't care when I cock up.

I imagine it's largely the same as seeing high powered blacks/asians/indians etc etc in positions of power - it is empowering, it lifts the ceiling and should be inspiring.

Problem is, for everyone else it's thrown down your throat and people have different tolerances. There's no accountability to the physical %'s of life when it comes to forced representation. The balance is all wrong for fear of offending - which in turn sets those off who have had enough and those who are differently generational and think 'the country has gone'. And that's without getting into the music element of life and why the N word is appropriate at times, but not at others, yet nobody bats an eyelid about rapping about shooting coppers and there's no such thing as a female...only a 'ho'.

It needs a proper conversation but as we know, that'll never happen, because every equal rights' arm goes extreme wanting only their voice heard, their face seen, their views represented with a strong whiff of 'it's our turn to be on top and in charge'.

The NF/Yaxley-Twatly no more represent white folk angered by positive discrimination, than BLM represents those blacks/asians clearly hit by stop and search when their record is 100% clean and so on.

Celebrity/sports jumping on the bandwagon is exactly the same. And one of the biggest problems is the media never chase stories of 'X kid faces discrimination but comes good'. The media always seems to go for 'poor me, I was held back, I'm owed something' and that also seems to massively apply to sports/celebrity.

How we fix it, fuck knows. But we could by starting to listen to real views, real stories and not the poor me, gimme compo culture we now have.
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We're going back about 8+ years here (probably more), but JF had to pull me about retarded as I used it liberally to describe players/referees/other managers and so on, and we got complaints on the front page and they didn't think it could apply to any other context either.

But language evolves - it's appropriated, everything is new until it's not and some generations will never adjust - but it don't mean they are being insulting which seems the automatic assumption.

Nobody should be put on the spot to explain the evolution though (even if the question comes from a good place), and it's certainly not for someone without experience to devise their own explanation.

Like most things, the SJW ilk cause problems and division that doesn't need to be there, without actually realising they have now become the major problem. The fact they don't see themselves as demanding/representing/speaking for....as blatant privilege in itself is mind boggling.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
Assuming you mean making the mistake of saying their 'old' pronouns. You're either up against militant minded SJWs or your reaction might be evoking a response. You know the old saying SJH, when everyone is the arsehole its probably you haha.


Assuming you're talking about your friend you spoke about before. I assume she says whatever shit she says because she thinks its right and by extension shes right and it makes her a good person. Thats her "why" and I doubt she'll change until she can find a better reason.
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Well there's no doubt I'm an arsehole, but I still maintain they are the bigger arseholes, lol

The problem I have is the insistence to "get with the program". If you don't refer to Elliot Page as a man, you're a transphobe and "part of the problem". Sorry, but fuck right off. She's not a man and I'm not bending reality to appease a few nutjobs.

This whole woke gender thing is completely contradictory anyway. Gender is a social construct, yet doesn't apply when it comes to trans people, because fuck it, we make the rules now and everyone needs to keep up. I'm just not playing this game, sorry. And the vitriol in the comments from wokesters who accuse people of "deadnaming" or using the wrong pronoun, wow they're really helping the cause. What was it you said a while back, "you'll catch more bees with honey"? Try telling these gender fascists.

As for the SJWs wanting people to go learn for themselves first, well it's a bit hard when they keep moving the goalposts, and besides I have no interest in learning their bogus doctrine anyway, they are full of contradictions and it's really base level intellect. They're not as smart as they think they are.

As for my friend, she's not as bad as maybe I made her out, lol. Yes, she does throw in the odd "patriarchal" comment or wants to start talking about gender and feminism and I'm sure next time I see her she'll be beaming with how stunning and brave Elliot Page is etc.

But you mention the word retard, she says it the whole time! She refers to Dennis the cat as a "little fucking 'tard" in a loving way of course, lol.

I think my point overall is, things change naturally for the better, we all want to get along, but forcing radical change like the SJWs are doing (and let's be honest, they are getting their way) is very dangerous.
 
Stephen Jay Hawkings said:
W
The problem I have is the insistence to "get with the program". If you don't refer to Elliot Page as a man, you're a transphobe and "part of the problem". Sorry, but fuck right off. She's not a man and I'm not bending reality to appease a few nutjobs.

This whole woke gender thing is completely contradictory anyway. Gender is a social construct, yet doesn't apply when it comes to trans people, because fuck it, we make the rules now and everyone needs to keep up. I'm just not playing this game, sorry. And the vitriol in the comments from wokesters who accuse people of "deadnaming" or using the wrong pronoun, wow they're really helping the cause. What was it you said a while back, "you'll catch more bees with honey"? Try telling these gender fascists.

As for the SJWs wanting people to go learn for themselves first, well it's a bit hard when they keep moving the goalposts, and besides I have no interest in learning their bogus doctrine anyway, they are full of contradictions and it's really base level intellect. They're not as smart as they think they are.

I think my point overall is, things change naturally for the better, we all want to get along, but forcing radical change like the SJWs are doing (and let's be honest, they are getting their way) is very dangerous.
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I have no problem referring to someone as a man if they were biologically or 'assigned' as a female at birth. Does it matter SJH? Let me them have it I say. At the end of the day people are getting murdered because of how they choose to live their lives. Between that and not wanting to hurt peoples feelings I go with the flow on this one.

I get your last point but change like this happens at a glacial pace.

What is interesting to me is gender fluidity in South East Asia which appears to be accepted. Other developing cultures have none of this and then in the West because of the freedoms its more and more widespread.

It almost always starts in America because with the vastness of country you can be whoever you want to be. NYC allows you to be and do whatever you want really. My GF friend is a young impressionable girl, she's 21 and had a child with a fella who sounds pretty awful. I've said this before, she identifies now as gender non-conforming because she doesnt shave her legs etc. Those are the type of ones I find silly but I'll indulge it.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
I have no problem referring to someone as a man if they were biologically or 'assigned' as a female at birth. Does it matter SJH? Let me them have it I say. At the end of the day people are getting murdered because of how they choose to live their lives. Between that and not wanting to hurt peoples feelings I go with the flow on this one.

I get your last point but change like this happens at a glacial pace.

What is interesting to me is gender fluidity in South East Asia which appears to be accepted. Other developing cultures have none of this and then in the West because of the freedoms its more and more widespread.

It almost always starts in America because with the vastness of country you can be whoever you want to be. NYC allows you to be and do whatever you want really. My GF friend is a young impressionable girl, she's 21 and had a child with a fella who sounds pretty awful. I've said this before, she identifies now as gender non-conforming because she doesnt shave her legs etc. Those are the type of ones I find silly but I'll indulge it.
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Not all of South-East Asia. It's a big deal in Thailand. You can find some "ladyboys" in KL too but they get a hard time here. It's definitely not okay to be a "ladyboy" in small town Malaysia. Interestingly, there are quite a few "gentlemengirls" in KL too. I'd say that's much more common and completely flies under the radar.

I don't believe it's a choice people make because life is so much harder for transgender people in Malaysia. It's not cool or fashionable. Employment opportunities are very limited and there is almost no chance of promotion. People are not shy about expressing their opinions on people's appearance here either.

That said, I find it odd that you could say that you feel like another gender. I've no idea what it's like to be a woman. I'm not even sure that I could say that I feel like a man since I only have my own experience to go off rather than a huge sample size. If I don't get blind drunk and get into fist fights outside the chipper, does that make me transgender?
 
mike_field said:
I actually do. One better than the other. No fan of Greg Clarke but the more I read the more I understood - people of a generation have their words and insult isn't necessarily the meaning behind it. May have said before, I remember quite well 6/7ish, maybe slightly younger, but defending a mate who was called 'black'. I corrected to 'brown', mate agreed with me - history would tag me racist with the way phrases have changed. I also now understand my nan more as she cycles through all her children's names before she actually gets the right one for my old man on occasions. It's all ingrained patterns. I'm 41, I've been calling my kids by the wrong names for about 5 years when I'm not paying attention lol
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My dad is 65 and has used the term "coloured" around my GF once and rightly or wrongly that's what people said when he was growing up. Thankfully she understood it contextually and didn't want to embarrass him by correcting the word when he said a good thing.

"That's Gay" is something I would have said a lot as a teen and my early 20s.
 
CDX_EIRE said:
I have no problem referring to someone as a man if they were biologically or 'assigned' as a female at birth. Does it matter SJH? Let me them have it I say. At the end of the day people are getting murdered because of how they choose to live their lives. Between that and not wanting to hurt peoples feelings I go with the flow on this one.

I get your last point but change like this happens at a glacial pace.
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Let me put it this way, if I knew someone trans then I would use the pronouns they want, but I won't be told they are something they are not and I won't be compelled to. And before anyone says "nobody is telling you to" well yeah, they are, it's already happened multiple occasions. As I said, I'm not playing this game. Postmodern rubbish.

Yeah I agree, people get murdered because how they choose their lives and appearing different, but that extends beyond the LGBT community. People have been murdered for being goths. I had my head beaten in because I'm a metalhead. People are *****, nothing will change that. Murder is a pretty serious thing, I don't think "awareness" and flying rainbow flags everywhere is going to all of a sudden stop evil people doing evil things.

I think trans people should be given the best tools and education to face the real world, because the real world (as much as it tries to pretends to) is not going to change for them.
 
I sort of get what you are saying SJH but I can't agree with lines like 'won't be told to agree they are something they are not' 'bending reality'.

Life isn't that clear cut.

Yes male/female is a construct based on reproduction. The fluidity element I find batshit - at its core it means they are bisexual, not that they change sexuality on different days of the week and are asexual when not in the mood. But again that's the extremes. KPOP is probably a good example there, along with the above talk of ladyboys or boydygirls when it's more acceptable.

Gender association is different and it's no longer reproduction based, based on Church doctrine.

When we live on a planet where getting a blow to the head can give you an immediately perfect alternate accent and dialect that feels perfect natural even if your family recoil in terror and the other brain wonderments we have discovered (multi/multi personalities etc etc).

I think it's perfectly plausible someone can feel they are in the wrong body and it really not being a case of (old term alert) an effeminate boy or a tom girl.

The last line on the above post though....

You know me, so you know I'm not being chippy here.

It's a good job women going after the vote didn't think that. It's a good job MLK and Rosa Parks didn't think that. It's a good job Alan Turing, Oscar Wilde etc didn't think that.

The world does change, but slowly. The difference is again the loudmouthed revolutionists demanding to be in charge vs the more silent majority of evolutionists who simply want to get on with their own lives with a fair crack of the whip.
 
mike_field said:
I sort of get what you are saying SJH but I can't agree with lines like 'won't be told to agree they are something they are not' 'bending reality'.

Life isn't that clear cut.

Yes male/female is a construct based on reproduction. The fluidity element I find batshit - at its core it means they are bisexual, not that they change sexuality on different days of the week and are asexual when not in the mood. But again that's the extremes. KPOP is probably a good example there, along with the above talk of ladyboys or boydygirls when it's more acceptable.

Gender association is different and it's no longer reproduction based, based on Church doctrine.

When we live on a planet where getting a blow to the head can give you an immediately perfect alternate accent and dialect that feels perfect natural even if your family recoil in terror and the other brain wonderments we have discovered (multi/multi personalities etc etc).

I think it's perfectly plausible someone can feel they are in the wrong body and it really not being a case of (old term alert) an effeminate boy or a tom girl.

The last line on the above post though....

You know me, so you know I'm not being chippy here.

It's a good job women going after the vote didn't think that. It's a good job MLK and Rosa Parks didn't think that. It's a good job Alan Turing, Oscar Wilde etc didn't think that.

The world does change, but slowly. The difference is again the loudmouthed revolutionists demanding to be in charge vs the more silent majority of evolutionists who simply want to get on with their own lives with a fair crack of the whip.
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Yeah, I'm probably not coming off very well here, but fuck it who cares, lol

But if you want me to acknowledge that Ellen Page (now Elliot) is biologically a man, then no, sorry. I really don't care about peoples fee fees anymore.

I know the whole thing is a lot more complex, intersex for example is a real thing, as is gender dysphoria, and they should be treated properly. In the most amazingly predictable turn of events people who transitioned as young as 10 or 11 are now de-transitioning and left worse than before, but thankfully there has been a new ruling where u-16s will not be able to give consent to have treatment. So at least some kind of sense is coming back.

And yes as for my last line, maybe I came off wrong, and I totally agree with what you said, but my point was there is a big horrible world out there that doesn't care about you.

For instance, I saw a feminist say the other day that "women should have the right to walk alone at night". Well of course they should, but welcome to fucking reality. I doubt I need to go much further with that, as I'm sure you see the point.
 
Transgenderism is a mental illness IMO and I do not think sex-reassignment surgery should be an easy thing to do, more like it should be a kind of a last resort. In particular I find it alarming that children are having their desires to be a different gender taken seriously. I'm fairly sure I've seen some evidence of post transition regret and even reversal surgery has been rising over time as well.

In terms of pronouns, I think we should accept that some people want to be addressed in a particular way and politeness demands that we accept/ acquiesce to this. However I don't agree that people should be berated for innocently 'misgendering' someone.
 
Just listening to that fat twat Adam Boulton on Sky talking about the fishing issues and follow the BBCs lead in referring to fishermen as fisherpeople.
What is wrong with these fuckin idiots.
They inhabit a London/ Media bubble that no one else subscribes to.
They are not representative of the real world, but by abuse of their position are able to do as they please basically. Speak the Queens English, not try to rewrite it.
 
wittonite said:
Just listening to that fat twat Adam Boulton on Sky talking about the fishing issues and follow the BBCs lead in referring to fishermen as fisherpeople.
What is wrong with these fuckin idiots.
They inhabit a London/ Media bubble that no one else subscribes to.
They are not representative of the real world, but by abuse of their position are able to do as they please basically. Speak the Queens English, not try to rewrite it.
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I think you are being fattist there mate and I'm now offended on behalf of the 60% of people who are fat
 
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