Hypothetical Lolley/Burke Question

[mao tse tung]

This is one I know a little about and I've heard a very different narrative.

There was an interview with Burke shortly after his sale ,were he alluded to the fact that he had visited Leipzig and done his due diligence on the club.

Everyone seemed to think it was a last minute sale at the time; the interview shot that theory to pieces.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

There was an interview with Burke shortly after his sale ,were he alluded to the fact that he had visited Leipzig and done his due diligence on the club.

Everyone seemed to think it was a last minute sale at the time; the interview shot that theory to pieces.

Burke was aware of interest but was told under no circumstances would he be sold and he was more than happy with that. At the 11th hour he was told Fawaz had a change of heart and the club needed the money or we'd be in deep financial trouble. He was then whisked away by helicopter and while definitely excited by the prospect also felt the club wanted money more than him as a player.

If this was so planned why was the manager completely out of the loop?

 

[Apollyon]

Because the owner and agent were bent?

 

[mao tse tung]

Burke was aware of interest but was told under no circumstances would he be sold and he was more than happy with that. At the 11th hour he was told Fawaz had a change of heart and the club needed the money or we'd be in deep financial trouble. He was then whisked away by helicopter and while definitely excited by the prospect also felt the club wanted money more than him as a player.

If this was so planned why was the manager completely out of the loop?

I don't know; but Montanier would not have been the first manager to have been kept in the dark.

I would guess it was all planned as a last minute transfer because Fawaz would have been aware of the shit storm that would have followed.

Burke was indeed aware of the interest; that is why he trundled off to Leipzig for a look round during the summer break.

 

[orbitalforest]

Burke was aware of interest but was told under no circumstances would he be sold and he was more than happy with that. At the 11th hour he was told Fawaz had a change of heart and the club needed the money or we'd be in deep financial trouble. He was then whisked away by helicopter and while definitely excited by the prospect also felt the club wanted money more than him as a player.

If this was so planned why was the manager completely out of the loop?

One word ........Fawaz.

 

[redderthanred]

When will we ever top hankering after old players?

They left.

I could tolerate a legend coming back, but not really bothered about some young kid who left to chase $ and has ended up in an even worse position.

Let him rot on the West Brom bench.

I'm not sure about what you're saying about the lad chasing the big bucks I think it was FatWaz who constructed the deal with his agent to fill his pockets because for a long time after, many supporters were all asking the same question - Where did the Burke money go?

Don't forget how old he was at the time - he didn't organise his own transfer he had only just come out of the academy with a handful of first team games - this was all down to FatWaz and Burkes agent.

I say bring him home if the price is right - Lolley on one wing and Burke on the other and we'll murder teams in this league!!!

 

[Our Kids Dad]

I don't know; but Montanier would not have been the first manager to have been kept in the dark.

I would guess it was all planned as a last minute transfer because Fawaz would have been aware of the shit storm that would have followed.

Burke was indeed aware of the interest; that is why he trundled off to Leipzig for a look round during the summer break.

He didn't just have a look around either, he was involved in at least 1 training session.

Montanier was just the latest fall guy of a manager, but the money on offer meant that Ollie truly was the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

This is one I know a little about and I've heard a very different narrative.

I'm not lying CP, there are some things that I know and it helped that 'details (incl' pictures)' of his summer visit were 'leaked'. Ollie later admitted to it in an interview

The rumours of the move to RBL then started & the claims that Ollie & his family were unaware of any interest & that it was all last minute are BS! The actual final part of the transfer maybe as we were given an ultimatum to stop it going to the wire.

Often, I will keep things to myself because it isn't worth the hassle of purporting to be ITK.

Clearly, I can't go into actual detail of how or why, but this is an occasion when I do know - the only thing that shocked me was how much we got for him.

It could be that Fawaz played up the interest from EPL clubs, that wanted to buy & then loan back for the season, but the figure under £10m & then RBL gave said take it or leave it figure.

Fawaz was then supposed to back PM and we ended up with Lica, Dumitru etc.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Burke was aware of interest but was told under no circumstances would he be sold and he was more than happy with that. At the 11th hour he was told Fawaz had a change of heart and the club needed the money or we'd be in deep financial trouble. He was then whisked away by helicopter and while definitely excited by the prospect also felt the club wanted money more than him as a player.

If this was so planned why was the manager completely out of the loop?

Montanier may have told him that, as he was the proverbial 'mushroom' in this matter.

I felt sorry for PM as he was almost doomed from the start and was pretty much toothless when it came to decisions on players, with many signed out of desperation from the bargain bins.

 

[Calvin Plummer]

I'm not lying CP, there are some things that I know and it helped that 'details (incl' pictures)' of his summer visit were 'leaked'. Ollie later admitted to it in an interview

The rumours of the move to RBL then started & the claims that Ollie & his family were unaware of any interest & that it was all last minute are BS! The actual final part of the transfer maybe as we were given an ultimatum to stop it going to the wire.

Often, I will keep things to myself because it isn't worth the hassle of purporting to be ITK.

Clearly, I can't go into actual detail of how or why, but this is an occasion when I do know - the only thing that shocked me was how much we got for him.

It could be that Fawaz played up the interest from EPL clubs, that wanted to buy & then loan back for the season, but the figure under £10m & then RBL gave said take it or leave it figure.

Fawaz was then supposed to back PM and we ended up with Lica, Dumitru etc.

There's a difference between being aware of one of the biggest clubs for young players in the world being interested in you (and checking it out) to what you seem to imply was a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club.

The bid was accepted at the last moment when he'd been told he was staying which he was content with. He was whisked off in a helicopter with the clear message that the club wanted the money and not him.

 

[Polly 433]

To respond to your question of Lolley or Burke the answer is Lolley, as he is producing the goods every game and is on the up where as Burke is struggling with everything at present.

Lolley has skills to beat one or more men by providing high speed jinking runs, inside or outside in a very congested area/space. On Saturday he completed a run in to the box beating four Ipswich players. Unfortunately his shot lacked the venom of earlier in the week.

Burke is a conundrum who may come good yet. He has pace which can't be taught. He also has size, a difficult combination to defend against. Unfortunately he hasn't been able to add close control and dribbling to those skills. He goes past his marker because he is quicker than them. Push and run. If he could learn to dribble like Lolley he would be some asset.

Would I take him back. Probably not at the price WBA will be wanting. Is he worth £2M possibly. £6M (which is more like what they will be wanting) not on present form.

The other issue is he would be taking a place in the team which at present is being fought out between Dias and Cash. Wouldn't want to stall either players development by taking a punt on Burke. Also Appiah when introduced to the team is likely to come in on the right wing although he is likely to play across the line.

If we have £2M or £6M I would prefer to find young talent to fill positions elsewhere.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

There's a difference between being aware of one of the biggest clubs for young players in the world being interested in you (and checking it out) to what you seem to imply was a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club.

The bid was accepted at the last moment when he'd been told he was staying which he was content with. He was whisked off in a helicopter with the clear message that the club wanted the money and not him.

I never said there was 'a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club'.

I told you he'd been to RBL that summer, something that later 'came out' and I can categorically tell you, that it is not usual for a contracted footballer to play in a friendly or take part in a training session at a another club without consent.

Again, take that whichever way you want - but someone is not telling the whole truth.

Burke scored the 3rd against Leeds, but was very poor that game and fell out with several team mates - I was staggered he wasn't subbed. The sale went through (the day after) 2-3 days before the window closed - we'd had offers (PLURAL) beforehand, including one from an EPL club - which may well explain Burke's attitude against Leeds.

He was aware of the offers, as was his agent, parents etc... perhaps the only one unaware was Montanier.

The money on offer was something we could not turn down, especially given the way Fawaz had made it clear he wanted out of NFFC and given our financial situation.

Fawaz wanted to conclude the deal asap (hence, being whisked off in a helicopter amazingly to a club he'd 'visited' that summer), allegedly to get money in and then allow Montanier chance to placate fans by signing players (Lascelles & Darlow situation ring any bells) - I'm sure (may be wrong) we then signed 3 wingers - Lica, Dumitru & Carayol.

I was told that Montanier had no idea prior to the sale or if he did, he's a decent poker player.... if it's the former, then it would explain why Burke thought he'd be staying - or played along, until that summer trip to RBL came out.

So... I will again state, I don't believe there was 'a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club'.... but, I'll caveat that with 'he's not as green as he is cabbage looking!'.

 

[mao tse tung]

I never said there was 'a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club'.

I told you he'd been to RBL that summer, something that later 'came out' and I can categorically tell you, that it is not usual for a contracted footballer to play in a friendly or take part in a training session at a another club without consent.

Again, take that whichever way you want - but someone is not telling the whole truth.

Burke scored the 3rd against Leeds, but was very poor that game and fell out with several team mates - I was staggered he wasn't subbed. The sale went through (the day after) 2-3 days before the window closed - we'd had offers (PLURAL) beforehand, including one from an EPL club - which may well explain Burke's attitude against Leeds.

He was aware of the offers, as was his agent, parents etc... perhaps the only one unaware was Montanier.

The money on offer was something we could not turn down, especially given the way Fawaz had made it clear he wanted out of NFFC and given our financial situation.

Fawaz wanted to conclude the deal asap (hence, being whisked off in a helicopter amazingly to a club he'd 'visited' that summer), allegedly to get money in and then allow Montanier chance to placate fans by signing players (Lascelles & Darlow situation ring any bells) - I'm sure (may be wrong) we then signed 3 wingers - Lica, Dumitru & Carayol.

I was told that Montanier had no idea prior to the sale or if he did, he's a decent poker player.... if it's the former, then it would explain why Burke thought he'd be staying - or played along, until that summer trip to RBL came out.

So... I will again state, I don't believe there was 'a machiavellian scheme on the part of Burke to leave the club'.... but, I'll caveat that with 'he's not as green as he is cabbage looking!'.

We had no option but to buy players like Lica, Dumitru and Carayol; the minute the Burke money hit our Bank account, Fawaz withdrew it all from the ATM near the Cricket Ground and then took it back to Kuwait with him.

The transfer might have shown up on the Clubs accounts but we all know that it was siphoned off and we did not see a penny of it.

 

[eastanglianred]

GIven the form of Lolley, I would be very reluctant to agree to a sale. Lolley being a Villa fan would probably not want to goto WBA anyway. As OKD states though, it would depend on money but if an offer came in where he would earn more money and he is happy here, I'm sure AK and Mr M would want to speak with Joe.
On the Burke issue, I would only entertain getting him back at this stage if Dias decided he did not want to stay, hence provide back up and competition.

Given our squad now, we probably only need a left back. I have question marks over our goalkeeper, but we have four on our books so I think it highly unlikely we will look at another.

 

[Forest Boffin]

I said at the time, and got alot of stick for doing so, that Burke will have been well aware of this transfer.

I wasn't trying to make him out as the bad guy and OKD isn't - it's just normal in modern football that players, through their agents, know about interest, often before their club does. Their agents and clubs agents all know each other and talk constantly.

 

[Apollyon]

SHIT, I meant to post that from my FACTCHECKER account

 

[Woanz]

Seems to me it was done with Fawaz usual organisation & skill, at least he actually managed to get decent money for a change.

Lolz has been excellent but as evidenced by his previous career this is a a bit of good form so if money is offered & not by a promotion rival it’d be difficult but he’d have to go.

Burke has suffered from a bit of stutter in what was & still will be a promising career. He’ll do well at some point but I doubt that’ll be with us.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Seems to me it was done with Fawaz usual organisation & skill, at least he actually managed to get decent money for a change.

Lolz has been excellent but as evidenced by his previous career this is a a bit of good form so if money is offered & not by a promotion rival it’d be difficult but he’d have to go.

Burke has suffered from a bit of stutter in what was & still will be a promising career. He’ll do well at some point but I doubt that’ll be with us.

Unfortunately for Burke, he carries the weight of expectation that comes with him being involved in transfers for c£30m, I think he will come good but a big criticism has surrounded his attitude and work ethic, particularly in a defensive capacity.

You'd think we are reasonably well stocked with wide players, but I wonder whether Goncalves is up playing in the Championship, as he has been excluded from matchday squads and Appiah got on the bench ahead of him last weekend!

 

[Basha73]

Barring contractual issues I would be surprised if either Dias or Goncalves stay beyond their loans. If we are still in the Championship I fancy Appiah to get more game time too - he seems to be progressing quite smartly.

 

[Our Kids Dad]

Barring contractual issues I would be surprised if either Dias or Goncalves stay beyond their loans. If we are still in the Championship I fancy Appiah to get more game time too - he seems to be progressing quite smartly.

I think we may have 'permanent signing' options on both, but I do think Dias has a part to play - clearly lacking confidence t the minute, which is due to lack of game time.

If we had the opportunity, you'd think that they'd try to send Goncalves back in January.... if Arvin is making the squad ahead of him now, then he's either injured or he's not putting in the effort in training.