Hydrogen Engines - better than Battery? | Vital Football

Hydrogen Engines - better than Battery?

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JCB digs up a green future with hydrogen engines

Chairman Lord Bamford believes hydrogen is at risk of being overlooked in the rush to go electric for cars


It’s pouring with rain at the JCB testing quarry on a Tuesday afternoon in Staffordshire, but the JCB 3CX backhoe loader is just getting fired up.
The driver spins his cabin around a few times as if doing a twirl, then edges out towards the centre of the quarry and extends a claw. It may look much like the thousands of other JCB diggers found on building sites around the world, but this one is different.
JCB’s trademark bright yellow has been replaced by green, and the white puffs coming from the exhaust pipe are not smoke but water vapour. The sound is smoother.
Its task is not so much to dig but to try out JCB’s latest effort to help save the planet - and the combustion engine.
Powering the machine is a new hydrogen engine developed by the company, which it predicts could be a better alternative to diesel than electric batteries or hydrogen fuel cells for much of its heavy construction machinery.
“We really think it could be the future,” says Lord Bamford, the 75-year-old billionaire and car enthusiast who chairs JCB.
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Lord Bamford and JCB have been global leaders in the push to develop efficient hydrogen engines Credit: PAUL COOPER
He and his father Joseph (Cyril) Bamford turned the business, founded in a small garage in Uttoxeter in 1945, into a household name. It is on track to make more than 100,000 vehicles and engines this year in factories around the world.
But like all other captains of industry, Lord Bamford faces the challenge of getting JCB ready for a world that is striving to cut carbon emissions.
New petrol and diesel cars will be banned in the UK from 2030, while every company from oil giants to supermarkets and JCB’s construction industry customers are under pressure to slash their carbon emissions.
JCB last year unveiled a digger running on hydrogen fuel cells, and it has also been selling a range of electric-powered vehicles, mostly towards the smaller end.
But the weight and costs of batteries and fuel cells make those solutions imperfect or outright impossible for JCB’s larger equipment that must be able to work lengthy days.
In October, Lord Bamford tasked his engineers with designing a hydrogen engine for its trucks. In theory this could be built on the same production lines and using many of the same parts as the diesel engines that JCB has produced since 2004.
“My son [Jo Bamford, owner of hydrogen producer Ryse Hydrogen] said, ‘well you won't be able to get your engines powered by hydrogen'. And I said, 'I'm jolly well, sure we could," recalls the Tory donor of how the effort got started.
Hydrogen is having something of a moment in the UK and Europe in the decarbonisation push. Despite being touted as a "fuel of the future" many times, it is still yet to take off.
Expensive and difficult to produce, it can be made either through electrolysis or from natural gas. The latter production process produces vast amounts of carbon dioxide. It is also inefficient compared to other fuels.
How hydrogen output could expand in the coming decades, using carbon capture utilisation and storage (CCUS):

But it does not produce carbon emissions when burned, meaning it is now being seized upon as a potential replacement for natural gas in everything from heating to heavy industry.
The UK is legally committed to slashing carbon emissions by 78pc before 2035 and to net zero by 2050. It is hoped that emissions from producing hydrogen from natural gas could be captured and stashed away. The Government wants the UK to be producing 5 gigawatts of hydrogen by 2030, and giants such as BP, SSE and Equinor are developing hydrogen projects.
For cars at least, however, hydrogen has largely been overtaken by batteries and fuel cells as the expected replacement for petrol and diesel engines. Elon Musk's Tesla has been a powerful force in the market. BMW’s Hydrogen 7 Series prototype never took off. As well as the efficiency problem, burning hydrogen at high temperatures in a combustion engine can also produce nitrogen oxides - a harmful pollutant.
Batteries and fuel cells can be too heavy and expensive at the scale needed for large construction equipment, however, making hydrogen more appealing. And JCB’s engineers think they have cracked some of a hydrogen engine's other problems, drawing on lessons from previous efforts.
“We went through paper after paper [on previous projects] and pretty much summarised them to say there were 11 root causes as to why they didn’t work,” says Tim Burnhope, JCB’s chief innovation and growth officer. “We have broken them down into four and said, if we fix these issues, we have fixed the full 11.”
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Lord Bamford wants to turn hydrogen engines into a viable alternative to electric engines for road vehicles and heavy construction vehicles Credit: PAUL COOPER
Paul McCarthy, chief engineer of JCB Power Systems, adds: “We’ve been able to make sure we are burning very small amounts of fuel compared to the amount of air - so it’s a very lean burn which keeps the temperature down. This is now a very modern engine with the air to fuel mixture that gives us ultra-clean combustion.”
The team is used to problem solving. In 2006, a souped-up JCB engine set the land speed record when Wing Commander Andy Green took it to above 350mph in a special streamlined car on the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah.
“The chairman gives us these challenges and we all thrive on it,” says Burnhope. “We never thought we could get 750 horsepower out of the engine but it forces the team to think differently and go to extremes.”
With their new hydrogen engine performing well so far in tests, JCB believes it has serious potential. "Our current thinking is that hydrogen engines are very possible for us to make and be used in our sort of machinery," says Lord Bamford.
"The timing honestly hasn't been decided; they're still experimenting. But we are a lot closer than we thought would be.”
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JCB has been working on developing hydrogen engines for a number of years now Credit: PAUL COOPER
The car fan is said to own not one but two Ferrari GT0 250s, but today is driving an electric Jaguar. Yet Lord Bamford is not about to let the combustion engine disappear without a fight. He believes hydrogen is at risk of being overlooked in the rush to go electric for cars, too.
"The car manufacturers are afraid to do anything that isn't electric - and yet they have many hundreds of years of combined knowledge on combustion engines and they make engines for actually a very low price,” he says. "I think if the world really knew what a combustion engine cost, it is quite tiny."
Last week, Carlos Tavares, chief executive of Vauxhall and Fiat owner Stellantis, warned that the higher costs of electric cars could prevent many from owning cars in future.
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Carlos Tavares, CEO of Stellantis, has warned that forcing car manufacturers to go all-electric could price out the average consumer Credit: Cyril Marcilhacy/Bloomberg
A petrol Corsa starts at £16,000 while the cheapest electric version, the Corsa E, costs £26,400.
The price difference is narrowing, however, and researchers predict the upfront costs of electric cars and vans should be cheaper than petrol or diesel within the next five to six years.
Lord Bamford, a major Tory donor, is not convinced. “The very point he [Tavares] is making is that it's going to be in future a rarefied thing to own a car, which is terrible. Everybody owns them now and they should be able to carry on being allowed to own them," he says.
"I don't think the Department for Transport is bothered whether it is inflationary or not - it is. Specifically on hydrogen, my understanding at the moment is the Department of Transport have got a pretty closed mind and they really should look at alternative power.
He adds: "I'm not glossing over things - the distribution of hydrogen at the moment is not properly thought out. But then nor is electricity properly."
Is he gearing up for a challenge akin to the Utah salt flats land speed record with a hydrogen engine, then? "I would love to do it," he says. "But I think it's some way off."
 
Hydrogen is coming fast. Cummins, W=Volkswagen, GWM are all moving forward with passenger vehicles.

Honda and Toyota offer a mainstream sedan already in California.

Once the gas station owners figure out it's a decent recurring revenue stream they will start making it available.
 
Hydrogen is coming fast. Cummins, W=Volkswagen, GWM are all moving forward with passenger vehicles.

Honda and Toyota offer a mainstream sedan already in California.

Once the gas station owners figure out it's a decent recurring revenue stream they will start making it available.


THe hydrogen cell replaces the battery. Not the electrical drive system.

Once people figure out how much cleaner it is to produce hydrogen from multiple sources, including waste of many kinds, and how damaging battery production is to the environment there will be a mass shift toward hydrogen.
 
THe hydrogen cell replaces the battery. Not the electrical drive system.

Once people figure out how much cleaner it is to produce hydrogen from multiple sources, including waste of many kinds, and how damaging battery production is to the environment there will be a mass shift toward hydrogen.

Can we keep it away from the Chinese or will it fall in their lap aswell. ?
 
Electric car range anxiety to be cured by battery that charges in five minutes

Graeme Paton
Tuesday May 18 2021, 9.00am, The Times
Technology
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Most modern electric vehicles take between 30 minutes and 12 hours to charge
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Motorists will be able to charge electric cars in five minutes within three years with the introduction of “extreme fast” battery technology.
It will be announced today that the first five-minute batteries will be made available for testing this year, with mass production being started in 2024.
StoreDot, the Israeli company behind the technology, said that charging would take only marginally longer than filling up a car with petrol.


Most modern electric vehicles take between 30 minutes and 12 hours to charge, depending on the size of the battery and the speed of the charging station. One of the quickest chargers on the market is built by Tesla, with its popular Model 3 being charged from 20 per cent to 80 per cent in 20 minutes.

Doron Myersdorf, the StoreDot chief executive, said that the technology would be a “game changer” for the electric car market.

The batteries will initially be able to gain 100 miles of range in five minutes using existing rapid chargers, although the company says that this will rise as more powerful charging devices are developed in the coming years.
Anxiety over battery range and the availability of chargers is often cited as one of the biggest barriers to the adoption of zero-emission vehicles. It is seen as particularly problematic for the third of households that do not have a driveway or dedicated garage, making it far harder to charge cars overnight.
“Driving an electric vehicle is a great experience — they’re much more efficient, quieter and require less maintenance,” Myersdorf said. “But the one barrier to adoption is the anxiety over charging ... We are producing the missing piece. The experience of the driver will be exactly the same as refuelling but without the smell of the fumes.”
The present lithium-ion batteries use graphite, a form of carbon, to store the charge. Instead the StoreDot batteries use metalloid nanoparticles such as silicon, which the company says can charge more quickly without short-circuiting the battery. It said that switching to silicon was also cheaper because of the mass supply of the element, bringing cost close to that of standard lithium-ion batteries.



Today StoreDot will announce that it has struck a new deal with EVE Energy, a Chinese manufacturer, to mass-produce the new battery. The first Extreme Fast Charge (XFC) batteries will be made available to motor manufacturers later this year with a view to companies placing orders. Manufacturing will increase in 2024, with “tens of thousands” expected to be made in the first two years.
The company said that it was working with Daimler, the German carmaker behind Mercedes-Benz, with other manufacturers to follow. Daimler is an investor, as are BP and Samsung. StoreDot has already developed small versions of the XFC batteries to be installed in drones and electric scooters.
Almost 41,000 battery electric cars have been sold in the UK since the start of this year, more than double the number sold at the same point last year. They account for 7.2 per cent of all cars sold.
The government has committed itself to banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, with hybrids following in 2035. The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has estimated that electric cars will account for 8.9 per cent of the new car market by the end of this year. Its previous estimate was 9.3 per cent but the government has since reduced its grant for new electric cars from £3,000 to £2,500.
 
Bloom Energy and Idaho National Laboratory to Generate Hydrogen Powered by Nuclear Energy
SAN JOSE, Calif. -- (Business Wire) --
Bloom Energy (NYSE: BE) today announced an agreement with Idaho National Laboratory (INL) to independently test the use of nuclear energy to create clean hydrogen through Bloom Energy’s solid oxide, high-temperature electrolyzer.
This carbon-free hydrogen is obtained through electrolysis that is powered by nuclear generation. When the electric grid has ample power, rather than ramping down power generation, the electricity generated by nuclear plants can be used to produce cost-effective hydrogen in support of the burgeoning hydrogen economy.
First announced in July 2020, Bloom Energy’s electrolyzer converts water (or steam) into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen can then be injected into the natural gas pipeline, stored and used for power generation with a fuel cell at a later time, dispensed to fuel cell vehicles, or used by industrial processes that consume large amounts of hydrogen. Bloom Energy’s electrolyzer has a higher efficiency than low-temperature electrolyzer technologies, thereby reducing the amount of electricity needed to produce hydrogen. The steam supplied to the electrolyzers can also be generated by the thermal energy produced by the nuclear power plant, bolstering the overall efficiency of hydrogen production further.
INL will test Bloom Energy’s electrolyzers at the Dynamic Energy Testing and Integration Laboratory in Idaho where researchers can simulate steam and load following conditions as if it were already integrated with a nuclear power station. These simulations will provide the opportunity to model operations in a controlled environment.
“The high-temperature electrolyzers take advantage of both the thermal and the electrical power that are available at nuclear power plants,” said Tyler Westover, the Hydrogen and Thermal Systems Group lead at INL. “This expands the markets for nuclear power plants by allowing them to switch between sending power to the electrical grid and producing clean hydrogen for transportation and industry energy sectors.”
“We must think creatively and seek all possible low, zero, and negative carbon solutions to benefit our planet. Harnessing excess energy to produce hydrogen is a solution with a positive impact on global decarbonization efforts and we look forward to working with the team at Idaho National Laboratory to make this a reality,” said Venkat Venkataraman, EVP and chief technology officer, Bloom Energy. “As a result of this pilot, we expect to establish carbon-free hydrogen generation with the highest efficiency of any electrolyzer in the market today.”
As the nation's premier nuclear science and technology lab, INL leads research, development and demonstration projects to help the nation maintain and expand its use of nuclear energy.
About Bloom Energy
Bloom Energy’s mission is to make clean, reliable energy affordable for everyone in the world. The company’s product, the Bloom Energy Server, delivers highly reliable and resilient, always-on electric power that is clean, cost-effective, and ideal for microgrid applications. Bloom’s customers include many Fortune 100 companies and leaders in manufacturing, data centers, healthcare, retail, higher education, utilities, and other industries. For more information, visit www.bloomenergy.com.
CT

View source version on businesswire.com: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210518005276/en/
 
As I understand it, the process for extracting Hydrogen is currently very expensive. No doubt over time this will reduce to become more economically viable on a wide scale.
 
Hydrogen can be extracted from Methane. Does that mean if we shove a pipe up millions of cows arses we can power our cars. I can just imagine the fields full of cattle with gas tanks strapped to their backs.
Milk and Hydrogen....was that a song by Dr Feelgood ?
 
As I understand it, the process for extracting Hydrogen is currently very expensive. No doubt over time this will reduce to become more economically viable on a wide scale.


There are several methods but the two that make the most sense in the short term are using excess hydro (Quebec is doing this now) and excess nuclear energy from reactors and some of the byproducts (heat) of the nuclear reactor.

There are several companies working on using solid waste (rubbish not shit) and burning it at 7000 degrees in a closed loop system. Lancaster, California is working with a company called SG H2 to implement this now.

The Saudi's have a major hydrogen generation project underway in development around the Gulf of Aqaba. They will use wind and solar to generate the electricity necessary for production and ship hydrogen using ammonia as the transportation agent. Recurring revenues to replace those of oil being the goal. Google Neom. It's the name of the project.

The other very good website to read through if you are interested in hydrogen is https://hydrogencouncil.com/en/ There is a multinational effort to move things forward.

The bottom line, when the space shuttle was designed most of the materials it required to be functional hadn't been developed yet. Hydrogen is further ahead than that but the same principle applies. The technology will get better and cheaper.

And one other thing, you can pump hydrogen through pipelines. That's going to attract a lot of investment.
 
Orknety Scotland - largest tide turbine producing electricity - known tide cycles are guaranteed and better than wind generation which is unpredictable..........currently cost prohibitive but surely the way to go....
 
Orknety Scotland - largest tide turbine producing electricity - known tide cycles are guaranteed and better than wind generation which is unpredictable..........currently cost prohibitive but surely the way to go....

Watched a short video on BBC news. Interesting stuff. Looks like a submarine on the surface, turbines either side catching the tide of 8 knots both ways, in and out. Anchored to the sea bed. Can generate enough power for 2000 houses from just one unit.
 
There are several methods but the two that make the most sense in the short term are using excess hydro (Quebec is doing this now) and excess nuclear energy from reactors and some of the byproducts (heat) of the nuclear reactor.

There are several companies working on using solid waste (rubbish not shit) and burning it at 7000 degrees in a closed loop system. Lancaster, California is working with a company called SG H2 to implement this now.

The Saudi's have a major hydrogen generation project underway in development around the Gulf of Aqaba. They will use wind and solar to generate the electricity necessary for production and ship hydrogen using ammonia as the transportation agent. Recurring revenues to replace those of oil being the goal. Google Neom. It's the name of the project.

The other very good website to read through if you are interested in hydrogen is https://hydrogencouncil.com/en/ There is a multinational effort to move things forward.

The bottom line, when the space shuttle was designed most of the materials it required to be functional hadn't been developed yet. Hydrogen is further ahead than that but the same principle applies. The technology will get better and cheaper.

And one other thing, you can pump hydrogen through pipelines. That's going to attract a lot of investment.

The other big issue it tackles for the UK is being able to eventually switch away from natural gas, to first a 'mix' and then eventually completely to hydrogen, which has shown to be entirely feasible - which if achieved would make the UK easily reach it's emissions targets and most boilers will only need a fairly simple small upgrade and switch over - and the oldest, of course, would still probably be needed to be replaced.

Much to do, but entirely doable.