How good is our squad? | Vital Football

How good is our squad?

muttley

muttley

Alert Team
There have been some great conversations this season about the quality, or not, of our squad.

One common opinion is that the squad is good but the current manager doesn't have the skills to optimise its performance on the pitch. That goes along with thoughts of him not playing a system that suits the talents of his players, hence making them square pegs in round holes.

Another common theme is that the squad is mostly very average apart from a couple of great players who are carrying the team. An opinion that also implies that the squad needs major surgery but may not get it due to current financial constraints.

I'm a little on the fence with this whole topic. I'm definitely not wax lyrical about our squad but I do see some superb players and a lot to work with. As an example, if we could ever get Ndombele, Dele and Gio in the same team, I feel that would change perceptions.

So without making this another Jose debate......if you were a new manager joining the club, how highly would you rate the extended squad (including loanees) you inherited? Would you feel that you could get THFC back into Champions League next season?
 
The ones that I feel I would keep are probably the ones that are looking to get out in the summer .
That is the conundrum to me .
The mentality of the best of the rest is the acid test .
Ive always thought a good coach/manager can make an average player into a great player.
Henderson , at the bindippers , is one , there are loads of others , others who never make it at another club like they did at their “own” Club .
The answer to your brilliant question is no . There will be an exodus in the summer and those that are left are mid table at best.
Without making this a Jose thread , which I appreciate , we have to get him out before the transfer window opens and hope the new manager can persuade Kane , Son , N Dom , Gio , moura etc to stay .
 
We were contenders once, for good reason. We kept our best players by rewarding them with lucrative contracts. What we failed to do however was build for the future. By standing still we fell even further behind.

Our current squad's still strong but it lacks cohesion. That's as much to do with the coach as it is the group he inherited. Square pegs, round holes is particularly fitting when you look at the current squad.

If Harry remains then a strong contingent will probably stay as well. If he leaves expect a mass exodus.
 
Walthamstow wanderer said:
The ones that I feel I would keep are probably the ones that are looking to get out in the summer .
That is the conundrum to me .
The mentality of the best of the rest is the acid test .
Ive always thought a good coach/manager can make an average player into a great player.
Henderson , at the bindippers , is one , there are loads of others , others who never make it at another club like they did at their “own” Club .
The answer to your brilliant question is no . There will be an exodus in the summer and those that are left are mid table at best.
Without making this a Jose thread , which I appreciate , we have to get him out before the transfer window opens and hope the new manager can persuade Kane , Son , N Dom , Gio , moura etc to stay .
Click to expand...
Very easily put there Walt, never the less very true.
 
At the start of the season, I thought our squad was good enough to challenge for the league. Definitely the top 4.

I am very much with you with regards to getting Ndombele, Lo Celso and Dele on the pitch at the same time.

Teams that control games have midfield players that dominate the ball and dictate the pace of the game.

Like you alluded to, Jose has used the players to fit into a system that he wants to play rather than playing a system that suits the players he has at his disposal.

For me there are two ways we can set the team up whilst getting the aforementioned into the team.

Lloris
Aurier Sanchez Rodon Reggie
Ndombele Hojbjerg
Lo Celso Dele Son
Kane

Lloris
Sanchez Rodon Davies
Moura Lo Celso Ndombele Reggie
Dele
Kane Son

My preference (with the current squad) is for the 2nd option.

The back 3 are balanced and I like Davies as a LCB.

Our best fullbacks are much better attacking rather than defending, it makes sense to use them more as wingbacks where I think we’d get the best out of them. Reggie and Moura have the pace to get up and down the flanks and are also tenacious in the tackle.

Dropping Hojbjerg for a more attacking 3 of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Dele is possible because of the insurance of 3 CB’s behind them, whilst keeping our main men up front.

Change the mindset to hunting the ball in packs when we lose it, play 10-15 yards further up the field. Use our technical players to bypass the opposing press (if there is one) and play our football in the opposing half.

Do this and we have the players to score goals and win games.
 
steveperryman said:
We were contenders once, for good reason. We kept our best players by rewarding them with lucrative contracts. What we failed to do however was build for the future. By standing still we fell even further behind.

Our current squad's still strong but it lacks cohesion. That's as much to do with the coach as it is the group he inherited. Square pegs, round holes is particularly fitting when you look at the current squad.

If Harry remains then a strong contingent will probably stay as well. If he leaves expect a mass exodus.
Click to expand...

Did we though? I felt we did offer contracts to some, but guys like Toby were penalized. Why couldn't we just have offered him a new contract in 2017 and put him on parity with our high earners? Why did we just demotivate him to the point of frustration and then when it was almost too late offer him a deal way past his useful life in the first team? He still has 2 more years left and is already slow with little spring. If we had done it then, I believe he would have signed and would be leaving naturally this summer, like Verts did last.
 
SheringhamNo10 said:
At the start of the season, I thought our squad was good enough to challenge for the league. Definitely the top 4.

I am very much with you with regards to getting Ndombele, Lo Celso and Dele on the pitch at the same time.

Teams that control games have midfield players that dominate the ball and dictate the pace of the game.

Like you alluded to, Jose has used the players to fit into a system that he wants to play rather than playing a system that suits the players he has at his disposal.

For me there are two ways we can set the team up whilst getting the aforementioned into the team.

Lloris
Aurier Sanchez Rodon Reggie
Ndombele Hojbjerg
Lo Celso Dele Son
Kane

Lloris
Sanchez Rodon Davies
Moura Lo Celso Ndombele Reggie
Dele
Kane Son

My preference (with the current squad) is for the 2nd option.

The back 3 are balanced and I like Davies as a LCB.

Our best fullbacks are much better attacking rather than defending, it makes sense to use them more as wingbacks where I think we’d get the best out of them. Reggie and Moura have the pace to get up and down the flanks and are also tenacious in the tackle.

Dropping Hojbjerg for a more attacking 3 of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Dele is possible because of the insurance of 3 CB’s behind them, whilst keeping our main men up front.

Change the mindset to hunting the ball in packs when we lose it, play 10-15 yards further up the field. Use our technical players to bypass the opposing press (if there is one) and play our football in the opposing half.

Do this and we have the players to score goals and win games.
Click to expand...

Love the thought process, but we need to realise that Moura will never have the football brain to play wing-back. He has the willingness, but just doesn't have the brain to know when to tuck back in goal side. He just hovers and then panics and puts in a big sprint. I don't think you'll teach someone his age that.
 
ScottDaYid said:
Not as good as I thought it was a few months ago.

Reguilon, Hoijbjerg, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Moura, Son, Kane are all good/very good players apart from that we have a load of OK players that need replacing.
Click to expand...

It was/is, could be again easily good enough for a top 4 finish.

Jose is now desperately trying to re-find a squad harmony and is laying it on thick as Jam topping, suspect it is too little too late now, but after hearing much of how he's tried to backtrack after the le arse game, who knows, it might even work?

He will have to get rid of /let go all who don't trust him now, which could work, the issue will be finance again.
 
Spursex said:
It was/is, could be again easily good enough for a top 4 finish.

Jose is now desperately trying to re-find a squad harmony and is laying it on thick as Jam topping, suspect it is too little too late now, but after hearing much of how he's tried to backtrack after the le arse game, who knows, it might even work?

He will have to get rid of /let go all who don't trust him now, which could work, the issue will be finance again.
Click to expand...

Like you say it could work but it only works when you have every player on side.

If players start not trusting him and buying into his style of play etc then it'll all go tits up, as it's slowly starting to.

I personally don't blame Jose and think the players need to take a long, hard look at themselves, acting like they're something special that have won everything. If they all were to stick with Jose I'm sure he would bring us success, gone too far now I fear though.
 
JOSE OUT! simple for me, round holes square pegs has been said a number of times, its bloody so obvious, why cant the great one see it, don't answer that as I know the answer.

Some are saying that some of the players aren't helping and must shoulder some of the blame, ok! but when its the multitude of the squad you have to ask yourself WHY?
 
- Son and Kane are our only proven world class players, Ndombele may be eventually but we haven't seen it yet.
- Lo Celso still has plenty to prove, he may have the makings of a top four quality player, but he may also be another Lamela.
- Reguilon definitely has the quality to be a top four regular, but will he stay with us, that seems unlikely.
- Dele unfortunately I think we've already seen the best of him, don't see him getting back to where he once was.
- Lloris past his best and needs to be replaced.
- Hojbjerg and Moura are decent Premiership players who can play their part in a high flying team, we will never have eleven superstars, these are players who will always merit a place in a good team though.
- Perm two out of three from Tanganga, Sanchez and Rodon, and in a season or two we will have a quality centre back pairing.
- Aurier, Alderweireld, Davies, Winks,Sissoko, Bergwijn, Lamela and Vinicius are all decent squad players, providing that only one or two of them are required as subs or replacements at a time.
- Hopefully there is plenty to come from Sessegnon, Skipp, Clarke and Parrott.

Like other posters on here have indicated, where we go from here is entirely dependent on who goes, who stays, and who joins. As regards Mutters original question as regards getting the Club back in the CL next season, given the full squad above, it is borderline. It is definitely a top six squad, not at all sure that it is a top four squad, but it could be if one or two of the players mentioned can up their level of consistency, and one or two others get closer to fulfilling their potential.
 
ScottDaYid said:
Like you say it could work but it only works when you have every player on side.

If players start not trusting him and buying into his style of play etc then it'll all go tits up, as it's slowly starting to.

I personally don't blame Jose and think the players need to take a long, hard look at themselves, acting like they're something special that have won everything. If they all were to stick with Jose I'm sure he would bring us success, gone too far now I fear though.
Click to expand...

Never understand that, the player(s) I know personally never ever gave it the billy big bollocks, so haven'ty seen anything or heard anything about 'acting special' - almost to a man they ALL bought into his 'winning at all costs' mentality approach, but the he started his 'I'm a bit special and you're all c**ts' routine in training and in the dressing room, and that's when it all went wrong in my view.

He isolated and lost the dressing room. it wasn't the other way around.
 
Jose in the Amazon documentary did his famous presentation where he told the players....to win, you need to be c--ts.

For a few this was no problem because they already were. But the others misunderstood and took Jose at his word and started playing like c--ts.

Jose needs to clarify what he meant....I didnt mean be c--ts to me and the club, you feckin c--ts, I meant the opposition !!
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Jose in the Amazon documentary did his famous presentation where he told the players....to win, you need to be c--ts.

For a few this was no problem because they already were. But the others misunderstood and took Jose at his word and started playing like c--ts.

Jose needs to clarify what he meant....I didnt mean be c--ts to me and the club, you feckin c--ts, I meant the opposition !!
Click to expand...


Outstanding post!!!!!!!
 
Spursex said:
Never understand that, the player(s) I know personally never ever gave it the billy big bollocks, so haven'ty seen anything or heard anything about 'acting special' - almost to a man they ALL bought into his 'winning at all costs' mentality approach, but the he started his 'I'm a bit special and you're all c**ts' routine in training and in the dressing room, and that's when it all went wrong in my view.

He isolated and lost the dressing room. it wasn't the other way around.
Click to expand...

You obviously know more than me but I still think there's too many players who easily down tools when things ain't going their way. The French clique spring to mind.
 
muttley said:
Did we though? I felt we did offer contracts to some, but guys like Toby were penalized. Why couldn't we just have offered him a new contract in 2017 and put him on parity with our high earners? Why did we just demotivate him to the point of frustration and then when it was almost too late offer him a deal way past his useful life in the first team? He still has 2 more years left and is already slow with little spring. If we had done it then, I believe he would have signed and would be leaving naturally this summer, like Verts did last.
Click to expand...
The likes of Harry, Son, Dele & Lloris all received lucrative new deals. A number of others were tied down with improved deals but a few declined. Eriksen & Toby. Eriksen was snapped up but nobody seemed particularly interested in Toby. It's probably the only reason he's still on the books.
 
steveperryman said:
The likes of Harry, Son, Dele & Lloris all received lucrative new deals. A number of others were tied down with improved deals but a few declined. Eriksen & Toby. Eriksen was snapped up but nobody seemed particularly interested in Toby. It's probably the only reason he's still on the books.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was talking 2017 above. 2 years after he joined in 2015, everyone was after him. He then didn't sign a contract until Dec 2019, even though he had been on about £50k a week when the other stars all had their salaries elevated. He was the poorer statesman out of our highest performers by a long way. There was definitely one summer when I think we all thought he'd leave but we couldn't get the right offers. Was that the infamous summer when we bought nobody?

The irony is that we're now saddled with a salary closer to £150k a week through to 2023. Toby's catching up for the salary he should have had earlier and nobody could blame him for seeing out his contract and getting every penny.

We should have sold Eriksen though. A harsh lesson learned that when a player shuts down on you in that way, it can be brutal.
 
muttley said:
Yeah, I was talking 2017 above. 2 years after he joined in 2015, everyone was after him. He then didn't sign a contract until Dec 2019, even though he had been on about £50k a week when the other stars all had their salaries elevated. He was the poorer statesman out of our highest performers by a long way. There was definitely one summer when I think we all thought he'd leave but we couldn't get the right offers. Was that the infamous summer when we bought nobody?

The irony is that we're now saddled with a salary closer to £150k a week through to 2023. Toby's catching up for the salary he should have had earlier and nobody could blame him for seeing out his contract and getting every penny.

We should have sold Eriksen though. A harsh lesson learned that when a player shuts down on you in that way, it can be brutal.
Click to expand...
Everything went through Eriksen at the time so it was particularly bothersome. He wanted out though for pastures greener. Didn't quite work out for him.

Toby would have left but the clubs he aspired to join showed little or no interest. They wanted him on the cheap & Levy was never going to oblige.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.