Pierre Hojbjerg - Player Thread | Vital Football

Pierre Hojbjerg - Player Thread

freundorfoe

freundorfoe

Vital 1st Team Regular
So...

there seems to be a big big shift at the moment in the discourse around Hojbjerg. I know myself and Ex had our issues with him last year when he was gaining plaudits, now he's out of form and more and more people seem to be deciding he's a root of some of our issues.

Some believe he's the DM we've been needing but he's let down by the players around him. Others that his best position is further forward like he plays for Denmark and he needs a more defensive player. Others like me think he's not good enough at either for a team with European ambitions.

It's a tricky one to accurately call perhaps as he's had the most successful tackles in the league this year! But he's also one of the most dribbled past players in Europe. So is that his fault, our tactics or his teammates?

Or a more binary choice...
 
freundorfoe said:
So...

there seems to be a big big shift at the moment in the discourse around Hojbjerg. I know myself and Ex had our issues with him last year when he was gaining plaudits, now he's out of form and more and more people seem to be deciding he's a root of some of our issues.

Some believe he's the DM we've been needing but he's let down by the players around him. Others that his best position is further forward like he plays for Denmark and he needs a more defensive player. Others like me think he's not good enough at either for a team with European ambitions.

It's a tricky one to accurately call perhaps as he's had the most successful tackles in the league this year! But he's also one of the most dribbled past players in Europe. So is that his fault, our tactics or his teammates?

Or a more binary choice...
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My big issue with and has been for a long time is that you need your DM'er to be mobile, to be agile, to close down, to chase down, to be as tough and focused in the transition as he might be in the tackle - but he isn't, he's simply too easy to go by, and if you're the opposition, you know he's going to try and foul you in positions that give you the advantage.

Skippy has made up for some of his mobility/agility/lack of pace, but generally, as a DM'er he's not a Top 6/top 4 player and until we address this, we'll keep getting caught out the way we do.
 
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I dont rate him. He just hasnt got anything like the ability needed to do the DM job. He invites pressure onto our defence by dropping deeper and deeper so there is no gap. He hasnt got the passing game nor the physical attributes to carry the ball out of defence as an alternative. We need a Kante in there and we have a kitten who retreats.

Its horrible how limited our 2 CM look sometimes. Skipp i can excuse as he is finding his feet in this team and i see potential but Hotpot just hasnt got it.
 
freundorfoe said:
So...

there seems to be a big big shift at the moment in the discourse around Hojbjerg. I know myself and Ex had our issues with him last year when he was gaining plaudits, now he's out of form and more and more people seem to be deciding he's a root of some of our issues.

Some believe he's the DM we've been needing but he's let down by the players around him. Others that his best position is further forward like he plays for Denmark and he needs a more defensive player. Others like me think he's not good enough at either for a team with European ambitions.

It's a tricky one to accurately call perhaps as he's had the most successful tackles in the league this year! But he's also one of the most dribbled past players in Europe. So is that his fault, our tactics or his teammates?

Or a more binary choice...
Click to expand...


He's part of the Mourinho disease.
 
ScottDaYid said:
I’m surprised so many feel how they do about him, I sort of get it but for me he’s a very good player who could get better in the right system, with the right players. He’s clearly out of form as well. We’ll see
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You're not alone - many feel the same way, even though I feel the opposite I'm surprised how one sided this has been so far considering how loud the "first name on the teamsheet" shouts were not long ago.

What do you think are the right tactics to bring the best out of him?
 
I didn't know much about him when we signed him, so presumed he was a DM. From what we have seen so far, I don't see him as our defensive midfield answers. He's certainly better when given freedom to roam as shown by his performances for Denmark in their 3-4-3 when he plays beside the DM Delaney.

I see him more as a defensively minded box to box midfielder. Similar to Henderson at Liverpool in that regard but of course more lacking in the final third to Henderson. But unlike that Liverpool side, the 3/4 offensive players in front of him have so much quality, intensity and movement that they are able to constantly create chances without relying on creative midfielders from deep. The move so far under Conte to push our full backs so far up the pitch will certainly help to alleviate some offensive burden which was showing him and Skipp up.

I like his commitment and I know I certainly easily fall for players who try as much as him so perhaps that's why I'm more likely to point the blame at the lazy arsehole who is up front, killing our team.

But having said that, our midfielders are certainly ones we should be looking to improve on in the transfer market. But I just don't know if I trust the likes of Lo Celso or NDombele defensively to cover the ground needed to play CM in a 3-4-3. So until then we might need to make the Skipp and Hojbjerg pairing work, at least against the better sides.

Ultimately he's a stopgap until we get the squad back towards the level it was several seasons ago.
 
Saw an interesting stat comparison of Gio vs Kante on twitter where it was proposed he's actually closer to Kante than Eriksen. He did do well playing deeper a bit last season but I don't really know what his best position is if I'm honest. I'm desperate for him and Tanguy to both come good, but the reality is better uses with the money spent on them could have been transformative to us.
 
The only thing I can add to this is that when Hojbjerg should be driving us forward, he is sitting back with the back four. He did it again against Everton and ended up playing behind Skipp. The more tired he gets, the worse it gets.

The other minor thing I would add is that after lockdown (prject restart), Jose got him straight back in the team for the last 8 games. He then had a couple of weeks between seasons and got cracking with the 20/21 season where he played all the way through to the Euro's semi-final. He's then straight back into this season's team. I think the guy is running on empty, and can't deal with the box to box role being asked of him.

Pierre should end up a good squad player, but not a first teamer. Then if he follows the pattern of the rest of his career, he'll restart elsewhere.
 
He's a Captain of a mid-table Prem side that plays a disciplined but not flashy style of ball.

He just doesn't fit the mold of a historical Spurs player, and he's not a great fit for the deep CM pivot in a Conte System.

No issue with the man's effort, or his dedication, and he's pretty damn indestructible apparently, so I wish him well in his next endeavor.

.
 
Spursex said:
My big issue with and has been for a long time is that you need your DM'er to be mobile, to be agile, to close down, to chase down, to be as tough and focused in the transition as he might be in the tackle - but he isn't, he's simply too easy to go by, and if you're the opposition, you know he's going to try and foul you in positions that give you the advantage.

Skippy has made up for some of his mobility/agility/lack of pace, but generally, as a DM'er he's not a Top 6/top 4 player and until we address this, we'll keep getting caught out the way we do.
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This.
 
xvausch said:
disciplined
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That's interesting coz whilst I agree with the rest of your post this is pretty much the last word I'd use for him. At least positionally I think he lacks discipline and leaves us exposed when he does a random foray forward and then fails to win the ball back far up the pitch. Then spectates from 20 yards outside the box while he ambles back and the opposition cut through us and score.

I'd actually prefer it if he was just a pure DM and played with someone more focused on ball progression, but I feel in him and Skipp we've ended up with two players who are half b2b and half DM and neither can flourish at either whilst trying to cover for the other one trying to do both.
 
freundorfoe said:
That's interesting coz whilst I agree with the rest of your post this is pretty much the last word I'd use for him. At least positionally I think he lacks discipline and leaves us exposed when he does a random foray forward and then fails to win the ball back far up the pitch. Then spectates from 20 yards outside the box while he ambles back and the opposition cut through us and score.

I'd actually prefer it if he was just a pure DM and played with someone more focused on ball progression, but I feel in him and Skipp we've ended up with two players who are half b2b and half DM and neither can flourish at either whilst trying to cover for the other one trying to do both.
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I get what youre saying. I was referring to an overall style of play that he'd be a better fit for, not describing him as a player. Too much freedom in this system for him to retain his personal discipline. A more rigid system would stymie his radicalism. 😂

Dont get me wrong, I think we need a deep CM that IS capable of efficient participation in an attack, just that PEH is not it.

I think Skippy might be tho.

People grossly underestimate his attacking vision..

Ive said it here a number of times, but if you're gonna play a dual deep CM pivot with this squad, the best pairing is Winks-Skipp. Not that THAT is good enough, but as a pairing, they play best together (time breeds chemistry) than others.

Moves to rectify that have already begun.


.
 
I like Hojbjerg. He’s an honest, hard working, committed player (and let’s be honest, we’ve lacked in this area recently).

One of the last games he played against us for Southampton was in the FA Cup I believe a few years back at St Mary’s. He was epic that day, sat in front of their defense.

When we were then linked with and subsequently bought him, I was chuffed thinking he was exactly what our midfield needed (at the time)

For £15m quid he will certainly go down as one of our better signings but as others have said my biggest issue with him is his lack of mobility and the ease at which players go past him (hence why he probably sits too deep in the first place) he knows his own deficiencies.

There’s no question in my mind that Conte will replace him either in January or the summer.

I don’t see Hojbjerg as a sub (for our point of view or his) so he probably gets sold at some point. We will also make a profit on him as he will go for more than the £15m paid for him.

Good luck to him, if and when he does leave. He won’t go down as a great but without him the last season or two would have been a lot worse.
 
freundorfoe said:
Saw an interesting stat comparison of Gio vs Kante on twitter where it was proposed he's actually closer to Kante than Eriksen. He did do well playing deeper a bit last season but I don't really know what his best position is if I'm honest. I'm desperate for him and Tanguy to both come good, but the reality is better uses with the money spent on them could have been transformative to us.
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Sadly for us we may never know; both were long held targets of Poch; he wanted them to part of our pressing, anti-press game, when I suspect he presumed that Kane, Delli, and Son were at their best.

LoCo does drive me nuts, you watch his international games and you can see exactly why he's being lauded as one of Argentina's best midfielders for years - watch him for us and half the time he just looks too slow, and without the subtlety of touch I expect of him, he scored goals for fun in Spain, yet we can't get him to score one! So frustrating, he looked to have everything then simply refuses/can't show it for us.
 
Spursex said:
Sadly for us we may never know; both were long held targets of Poch; he wanted them to part of our pressing, anti-press game, when I suspect he presumed that Kane, Delli, and Son were at their best.

LoCo does drive me nuts, you watch his international games and you can see exactly why he's being lauded as one of Argentina's best midfielders for years - watch him for us and half the time he just looks too slow, and without the subtlety of touch I expect of him, he scored goals for fun in Spain, yet we can't get him to score one! So frustrating, he looked to have everything then simply refuses/can't show it for us.
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If one accepts that he has the abilities, which performances elsewhere seem to indicate, it begs the questions as to why he has been a total failure for us, and how much longer do we allow that to continue.
- Have the coaches he has worked with been unable to relate to or get as much out of him as Poch might have done.
- Has he not fitted into the culture of the Club.
- Is he unsettled living in England.
- How much have injuries played a part.
- Are his style of play, skill factors and energy levels simply unsuited to the demands of PL football.
Probably a combination of all of the above, but I think we are very close to the stage where we should bite the bullet and give up on him. Conte is our last hope where he is concerned.
 
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