Here we go! | Page 558 | Vital Football

Here we go!

i am a tree said:
Labour doing their victory lap was a little premature.
Lib dems are the big winners, and I reckon that's a little glimpse into the future.
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Lib Dems were slowly building to be a genuine alternative before they fucked it by making a deal with the Devil. They are lucky that both Labour and the Tories are shit at the moment because it has allowed them to start to recover properly.
 
Basha73 said:
Lib Dems were slowly building to be a genuine alternative before they fucked it by making a deal with the Devil. They are lucky that both Labour and the Tories are shit at the moment because it has allowed them to start to recover properly.
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The Lib Dems fucked it with Nick Clegg and his lies..
The free education clanger being spectacular.
Followed by the spectacular arrogance of Jo Swinson, who told the world she was the next PM and was unilaterally going to undo Brexit, without anyones say so.

Brilliant, that'll do it. How did that go then?
 
Trickytreesreds said:
The Lib Dems fucked it with Nick Clegg and his lies..
The free education clanger being spectacular.
Followed by the spectacular arrogance of Jo Swinson, who told the world she was the next PM and was unilaterally going to undo Brexit, without anyones say so.

Brilliant, that'll do it. How did that go then?
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Clegg didn't have any power to enact that policy (having sacrificed it for a piss poor attempt at voting reform) but still played it badly.

Swinson played it very badly but she played it straight. Without anyone's say so? However unlikely, if she and the lib dems had been voted in with a majority, making her the prime minister, she would have had a mandate to pursue that policy since they weren't really campaigning on any other issues. She would still have had to go through the channels of parliament, of course.
 
in_the_top_one said:
Clegg didn't have any power to enact that policy (having sacrificed it for a piss poor attempt at voting reform) but still played it badly.

Swinson played it very badly but she played it straight. Without anyone's say so? However unlikely, if she and the lib dems had been voted in with a majority, making her the prime minister, she would have had a mandate to pursue that policy since they weren't really campaigning on any other issues. She would still have had to go through the channels of parliament, of course.
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Yes ITTO, I know that.

But that was the point.
Clegg conned the young with free education stance. Jumped into bed with the Tories and it vanished.

Swinson, played her cards out very naivly. She was convinced her jump back into the EU stance, would get her elected. She was so wrong, she even lost her own seat.

Most politicians live in a bubble and don't have a clue what the people around them want.
I have to endure Mark Spencer, who everytime you write him a letter, replies with I hear you and then gives you a load of bollox of why he's right and the Tories are wonderful.
Total twat.
 
Except that I don't think he was conning anyone at the time. He just was unable to do what he said he wanted to do. So were the leaders of every party other than the conservatives, who had Cameron as PM.

Swinson was almost certainly convinced of no such thing. She was electioneering and playing a straight bat, but the public chose other options.

Politicians are constantly fed information about what the people around them want because they want to pander to them in order to get elected. Often there is a conflict between what the people want and what the party line is. Those in office usually hold constituency surgeries to sort local issues and get info from the local horse's mouth.

Mark Spencer is in the cabinet and essentially forbidden from giving you anything other than the party line. (But he probably wants to anyway.)
 
Trickytreesreds said:
The Lib Dems fucked it with Nick Clegg and his lies..
The free education clanger being spectacular.
Followed by the spectacular arrogance of Jo Swinson, who told the world she was the next PM and was unilaterally going to undo Brexit, without anyones say so.

Brilliant, that'll do it. How did that go then?
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We all know exactly how it went but in light of the fuck up the Tories are making of things, coupled with the weakness of Labour, the Lib Dems are slowly but surely start to recover.

Maybe if you had addressed the actual point rather than going on another rant…
 
Basha73 said:
We all know exactly how it went but in light of the fuck up the Tories are making of things, coupled with the weakness of Labour, the Lib Dems are slowly but surely start to recover.

Maybe if you had addressed the actual point rather than going on another rant…
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Whoah, how is it a rant, or different to the usual narrative from anyone here?
The Lib Dems still offer nothing credible. They didn't before and still don't.
The only way they are climbing back as you say is-
1. they couldn't have fallen any further if they'd tried and the only way is up.
2. Any gains they make, are a protest vote against the Tories by people who can't bring themselves to vote for Labour. Its always been that way with the Libs.

Which is why over all, proportional representation is the only way to break the 2 party strangle hold.

Or am I ranting again?
 
Trickytreesreds said:
Whoah, how is it a rant, or different to the usual narrative from anyone here?
The Lib Dems still offer nothing credible. They didn't before and still don't.
The only way they are climbing back as you say is-
1. they couldn't have fallen any further if they'd tried and the only way is up.
2. Any gains they make, are a protest vote against the Tories by people who can't bring themselves to vote for Labour. Its always been that way with the Libs.

Which is why over all, proportional representation is the only way to break the 2 party strangle hold.

Or am I ranting again?
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As far as I can see, the only ones with credibility right now are Labour, because they haven't said or done anything at all in the last couple of years, so they haven't done anything to ruin their credibility.
That's probably a bad metric to go off though.
I've already decided that on election day I will vote tactically whichever way gets the tories out. I can't actively support any of the fucking morons in politics right now but I can try and get rid of the tories.
 
Trickytreesreds said:
Whoah, how is it a rant, or different to the usual narrative from anyone here?
The Lib Dems still offer nothing credible. They didn't before and still don't.
The only way they are climbing back as you say is-
1. they couldn't have fallen any further if they'd tried and the only way is up.
2. Any gains they make, are a protest vote against the Tories by people who can't bring themselves to vote for Labour. Its always been that way with the Libs.

Which is why over all, proportional representation is the only way to break the 2 party strangle hold.

Or am I ranting again?
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I pointed out that they were starting to show signs of recovery and you went off on one about how shit they were and blah blah blah…

Seems to be all you do unfortunately, particularly regarding any form of politics that doesn’t sit on the right.
 
paz1967 said:
like they are be doing now with the strikes I suppose. I couldnt understand why they want to damage the public in this way who are desperate for a break.

From what I can deduce. The government had been in talks with them for months and basically government said, look, this is simply inefficient and expensive, we need cuts and lay offs, preferably redundancies. or reorganisation.

Unions said, we wont have lay offs, you need to give them other jobs or train them for something else.

Workers said, Ive got a cushy number here, dont want to lose that, let other people work weekends, not me.

So all 3 sides are looking after number 1 and nobody really looking for solutions..

The buck simply HAS to stop with the government, who created the landscape but Unions should probably be openly talking and revealing thing sin a much better way to the public at large for the months leading up strikes so we can decide who we are actually in support of, not just find you cant take yer kids to school or get to work one week,

Basically everything is broken, everybody is batting for different teams
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This came up on my Facebook. I had to cut and paste but interesting reading, rather than the media force-feed: "
Just take a minute to read the post below, from a Rail Worker, that gives a different perspective to the hyperbole being flung out by HMG's client journalists...
Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked. Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them. This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less. They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team. The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear."
 
Trickytreesreds said:
I must admit, I chuckle when I hear this government called hard right Tories?

The most certainly are not hard right. They haven't got a spine and it makes them look awful in many ways.
Their money spending has been akin to any socialist government, even though spent badly.
So one bunch of big spending idiots will get the boot and the cycle will repeat.
By the time we hit the government after, the debt will be frightening.

NB, on a footnote, maybe this is the plan?
Break the place and rejoin the EU on par with Estonia and be a monetry benefactor?
:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:
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There are arguments to be made that Estonia is already a superior and better run country to the UK.
 
Pearced said:
This came up on my Facebook. I had to cut and paste but interesting reading, rather than the media force-feed: "
Just take a minute to read the post below, from a Rail Worker, that gives a different perspective to the hyperbole being flung out by HMG's client journalists...
Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked. Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them. This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less. They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team. The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear."
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9k less? wow, how much are they bloody earning? Must be many folk now not earning 9k
Use thier own cars? lol What they doing now, getting mom to drop em off?
Embracing more and more tech.. Yep, that generally leads to less jobs no doubt.
So basically if you dont like working unsociable hours, work in a different industry sounds like an option., me, i liked working nights, it suited my lifestyle. much of what you said sounds directly related to pay
 
Always see the left and right words thrown at either side and it makes me wonder if people still remember what right and left politics are officilly defined as.

Left-wing politics is the support of social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.
Right-wing politics is generally defined by support of the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable.

Thats's it, those are the 2 different fundamental representations.

One thinks people are equal
One thinks some people are better than others.
 
Pearced said:
This came up on my Facebook. I had to cut and paste but interesting reading, rather than the media force-feed: "
Just take a minute to read the post below, from a Rail Worker, that gives a different perspective to the hyperbole being flung out by HMG's client journalists...
Three years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise, two years ago we accepted a 0% pay rise. But this year they came to us with a 0% pay rise plus over 2500 redundancies, changes to terms and conditions. An increase from 28 weeks of nights to 39 weeks of nights. An increase from 32 weekends worked to 39 weekends worked. Currently for a night shift we get time and a quarter, for a weekend turn we get time and a half. They wish to cut both of these to time and a tenth. So that’s a 15% pay cut on every night shift and a 40% pay cut on every weekend turn. But they want us to work more of them. This is their modernisation they talk about. Not technology, we embrace technology and have seen more and more of it in recent years. They also wish to fire and re-hire the operative grades and bring them back under a new job title but on £9000 a year less. They also want them to use their own vehicles to get to work sites, this when fuel is at its highest. They will also be pooled when currently they are part of the team. The press are painting this to be about pay above all else. It is not. But now we’ve said sod them we are going to demand better. I wish everyone could see past the government controlled media smear."
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have to use own vehicles to get to work? What, like the rest of us. Should get the train.
 
Polly 433 said:
have to use own vehicles to get to work? What, like the rest of us. Should get the train.
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Different companies and jobs have different ‘perks’. Not having to use their own car was a perk for them that they have now lost and it will cost them money.

It’s easy to sneer at people but imagine if your Company took a perk away from you…
 
paz1967 said:
Always see the left and right words thrown at either side and it makes me wonder if people still remember what right and left politics are officilly defined as.

Left-wing politics is the support of social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.
Right-wing politics is generally defined by support of the view that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable.

Thats's it, those are the 2 different fundamental representations.

One thinks people are equal
One thinks some people are better than others.
Click to expand...
So what about centrists?
 
Trickytreesreds said:
The Lib Dems fucked it with Nick Clegg and his lies..
The free education clanger being spectacular.
Followed by the spectacular arrogance of Jo Swinson, who told the world she was the next PM and was unilaterally going to undo Brexit, without anyones say so.

Brilliant, that'll do it. How did that go then?
Click to expand...
Free education you say? Who'd have thought that would be possible? Everybody in the UK up until Thatcher is the answer I believe.
 
paz1967 said:
9k less? wow, how much are they bloody earning? Must be many folk now not earning 9k
Use thier own cars? lol What they doing now, getting mom to drop em off?
Embracing more and more tech.. Yep, that generally leads to less jobs no doubt.
So basically if you dont like working unsociable hours, work in a different industry sounds like an option., me, i liked working nights, it suited my lifestyle. much of what you said sounds directly related to pay
Click to expand...
I didn't say anything. Just posted the article. What about the downgrading of conditions?
 
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