Here we go!

[radfordinlondon]

Who else is in the room?
Gove is one of those who wouldn't rule out no deal but has made many remarks that it would be a disaster. (Great! Let's not do it then, eh Michael?)
Would have thought Sunak had more sense. Raaab, who knows.
Cummings wants to watch the world burn.

If your rumour is true, Johnson, who was famously in two minds but always selects self serving political expediency, has either repeated the mantra so much that he has started believing it himself, or, like May, sees it as his legacy now. Maybe he doesn't want it tainted by people saying he didn't really Get Brexit Done and sold out the leavers with Brino.

Which we all know is exactly whats happening. At least everyone is being treated equally. Equal contempt all round.

 

[BlackGold]

“No one’s going to starve, there won’t be empty shelves. But there will be products missing and there will be inflationary pressure on prices.”

Interesting prediction.
How do you think food prices could be kept as low as they are if there is no deal? I'm interested in your thoughts because I see the downsides of tariffs, regulatory issues, importing paperwork costs, transport delays, possible greater food miles, refrigeration, spoilage, a lower pound, and the predictions of the great majority of economists. I cannot see mitigating factors that will balance those costs for a good long time after the end of transition.
I suspect you are crossing your fingers and hoping for the best but I would be very happy to hear a reasoned argument.

If I had to guess, I think there will be a 'new' deal with the EU that is effectively a continuation of the transition period. We will be tied in to all manner of things but it will be presented as a success; food prices will remain largely as they are with only minor increases. Some in the ERG will hop up and down. Farage will be noisy and there will be no closure.

Yep, this; its the only way.

 

[da fuq]

Donald no longer has a say in things, and the Democrats will ensure the UK has to jump through hoops to maintain the existing arrangement, never mind any improvements to it.

Lets see what happens the first time Boris attempts to tinker with free movement across the Irish Border.

Improvements

Ha ha ha ha

There are still some who are deluded that think Brexit is a win

It literally has not and will not bring any benefits

 

[Strett]

Interesting prediction.
How do you think food prices could be kept as low as they are if there is no deal? I'm interested in your thoughts because I see the downsides of tariffs, regulatory issues, importing paperwork costs, transport delays, possible greater food miles, refrigeration, spoilage, a lower pound, and the predictions of the great majority of economists. I cannot see mitigating factors that will balance those costs for a good long time after the end of transition.
I suspect you are crossing your fingers and hoping for the best but I would be very happy to hear a reasoned argument.

If I had to guess, I think there will be a 'new' deal with the EU that is effectively a continuation of the transition period. We will be tied in to all manner of things but it will be presented as a success; food prices will remain largely as they are with only minor increases. Some in the ERG will hop up and down. Farage will be noisy and there will be no closure.

Food is too cheap in the UK. We spend an average of 8% of our income (less than any other country apart from the US and Singapore) This leads to the criminal amount of waste we observe. Boo. If prices do climb, than we will buy less and dispose of less, hoorah.
Food does too many air miles too; it's the demand by hipsters to have a cumquat and strawberry after their quinoa in February, probably. Fewer air-miles, better for the planet. Hoorah.

Brexit may solve both of these issues. What's not to like?

 

[mao tse tung]

Food is too cheap in the UK. We spend an average of 8% of our income (less than any other country apart from the US and Singapore) This leads to the criminal amount of waste we observe. Boo. If prices do climb, than we will buy less and dispose of less, hoorah.
Food does too many air miles too; it's the demand by hipsters to have a cumquat and strawberry after their quinoa in February, probably. Fewer air-miles, better for the planet. Hoorah.

Brexit may solve both of these issues. What's not to like?

"Food is too cheap in the UK"

I can see Aldi using that as their next marketing slogan

 

[da fuq]

Food is too cheap in the UK. We spend an average of 8% of our income (less than any other country apart from the US and Singapore) This leads to the criminal amount of waste we observe. Boo. If prices do climb, than we will buy less and dispose of less, hoorah.
Food does too many air miles too; it's the demand by hipsters to have a cumquat and strawberry after their quinoa in February, probably. Fewer air-miles, better for the planet. Hoorah.

Brexit may solve both of these issues. What's not to like?

And there you have it

It will be work houses next and children asking for more and kids up chimneys

 

[jbacsta]

And there you have it

It will be work houses next and children asking for more and kids up chimneys

Ah the Victorian era when Britain was great. Tearing up a bit to be honest.

 

[Strett]

And there you have it

It will be work houses next and children asking for more and kids up chimneys

Food is far too cheap. It's the cheapest it's ever been as a percentage of income.
The producers (farmers) are of the same opinion too.

Actually, I do hope it becomes more expensive as it'll be better in the long term.

The true cost of cheap food is health and the climate crises. Cheap food is usually processed and, ergo unhealthy to the individual consuming it and the planet.

 

[Pearced]

Coach and horses. Lol. Love the language. Very tabloid.

You should know. How is Rupert?

 

[in_the_top_one]

Food is too cheap in the UK. We spend an average of 8% of our income (less than any other country apart from the US and Singapore) This leads to the criminal amount of waste we observe. Boo. If prices do climb, than we will buy less and dispose of less, hoorah.
Food does too many air miles too; it's the demand by hipsters to have a cumquat and strawberry after their quinoa in February, probably. Fewer air-miles, better for the planet. Hoorah.

Brexit may solve both of these issues. What's not to like?

Food miles will increase.
We are literally enjoying free trade with our closest neighbours right now and ditching or degrading that in favour of more 'global' trade. Our trade deals so far are (roll-overs) with Japan, Canada and some other far flung nations. You can't really get around the fact that everywhere is further away the the EU.

 

[in_the_top_one]

Food is far too cheap. It's the cheapest it's ever been as a percentage of income.
The producers (farmers) are of the same opinion too.

Actually, I do hope it becomes more expensive as it'll be better in the long term.

The true cost of cheap food is health and the climate crises. Cheap food is usually processed and, ergo unhealthy to the individual consuming it and the planet.

We are currently in a position of having very cheap food and very high standards. Where those standards are lacking, we had the unified voice of 550m people and 28 mostly wealthy nations. I'm not saying it's perfect by a long chalk and the CAP has been in need of reform (at least) for a long time, but what a great starting point for getting things done. Brexit's race to the bottom is not going to solve any of the issues you are seemingly concerned about.

 

[Strett]

Food miles will increase.
We are literally enjoying free trade with our closest neighbours right now and ditching or degrading that in favour of more 'global' trade. Our trade deals so far are (roll-overs) with Japan, Canada and some other far flung nations. You can't really get around the fact that everywhere is further away the the EU.

No, you misunderstand.
We can and should produce more ourselves, it'll be great all-round.
We have a great climate for this. What's not to like?
Grow British, make British, buy British, eat British.

 

[in_the_top_one]

No, you misunderstand.
We can and should produce more ourselves, it'll be great all-round.
We have a great climate for this. What's not to like?
Grow British, make British, buy British, eat British.

That only works if our farmers aren't being undercut and put out of business. That objective makes trade deals with countries that produce to lower standards very challenging.

 

[Strett]

That only works if our farmers aren't being undercut and put out of business. That objective makes trade deals with countries that produce to lower standards very challenging.

It is, but farmers are resilient, they have to adapt to hugely changing seasons all the time. I agree, farmers must be enabled to shift from intensive farming to more organic and wildlife friendly production. The health of the land and the health of the people are intertwined. This needs to be led by empowered farmers. Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall is a huge champion of this. How often do you see mountains of misshaped parsnips rotting away? Criminal.

Decades of government policy has solely aimed at making food cheaper, fuelling rising obesity and other health problems. This needs to change.

The UK is the 3rd cheapest for food in the (developed) world, but also the highest food poverty in Europe, that is people being able to afford a healthy diet

What better an opportunity to reduce reliance of imports, thus providing security of production, reduce food miles and promote a healthy nation?

Brexit is allowing us the opportunity to look at this, but will the government?

 

[in_the_top_one]

I agree with your gist and noble aims but brexit is the absolute antithesis of the solution.

 

[Strett]

I agree with your gist and noble aims but brexit is the absolute antithesis of the solution.

As we know, necessity drives all this and however unpalatable it is to you, there is a necessity and as your narrative describes, we're heading to hell in a handcart. What greater necessity than that?

 

[Strett]

I agree with your gist and noble aims but brexit is the absolute antithesis of the solution.

Also just reading that agriculture produces more than 10% of the UK’s climate-heating gases and is the biggest destroyer of wildlife; the abundance of key species has fallen 67% since 1970 and 13% of species are now close to extinction.

Brexit is gonna be seen as the catalyst of change for good.

Now, where is my glass? I left it nearly to the brim.

 

[BlackGold]

How long will it take, and whats the cost of making the UK reliant on its own produce?

 

[in_the_top_one]

As we know, necessity drives all this and however unpalatable it is to you, there is a necessity and as your narrative describes, we're heading to hell in a handcart. What greater necessity than that?

But the necessity will not be fulfilled in the way you suggest. The government's Plan A is, and was always, cheap food from America.
That means: lower welfare and health standards, longer food miles, undercutting our farmers, farms out of business, and a consequent change in how the countryside looks and is managed.

As I say, if there was a snowball's chance in hell that there could be any net environmentally beneficial outcomes of brexit then I wouldn't be quite so opposed. You are selling a fantasy.

There is a commitment within the EU to raise environmental and safety standards. That is the forum and mechanism for the changes you want to see.

 

[Strett]

But the necessity will not be fulfilled in the way you suggest. The government's Plan A is, and was always, cheap food from America.
That means: lower welfare and health standards, longer food miles, undercutting our farmers, farms out of business, and a consequent change in how the countryside looks and is managed.

As I say, if there was a snowball's chance in hell that there could be any net environmentally beneficial outcomes of brexit then I wouldn't be quite so opposed. You are selling a fantasy.

There is a commitment within the EU to raise environmental and safety standards. That is the forum and mechanism for the changes you want to see.

But that that ship is sailing and I don't think it is top of The Donald's to do list.
Some might say we are at the "back of the queue".