Here we go! | Page 288 | Vital Football

Here we go!

I suppose growing up in the time of Mandelson, Blair and Big [scientist killer] Al, then ones perception of socialism in the UK, can easily be skewed.
 
In US politics terms she is Kamalachev ;-)
This is actually a very relevant point.
I know alot of people (I was once in this camp) who call themselves socialists because they think that anything that's a decent amount to the left of what we have now is socialism.
I see it more as a simple economic model that would be impossible to implement in today's society. Its akin to calling yourself a feudalist.
 
This is actually a very relevant point.
I know alot of people (I was once in this camp) who call themselves socialists because they think that anything that's a decent amount to the left of what we have now is socialism.
I see it more as a simple economic model that would be impossible to implement in today's society. Its akin to calling yourself a feudalist.

Yes the debate has moved on substantially since messers JC and Strett were paying attention
 
Yes the debate has moved on substantially since messers JC and Strett were paying attention

Sorry you are wrong. You cannot redefine socialism to fit what your perception is of it.
You may be describing leftism, welfarism, radicalism, Labourism or any of the many similar -isms. But Socialism has a definition.
So I repeat, Socialists are against the EU. This is not a debateable statement,
The fact you have left leanings and worship at the shrine of Maastricht is inconsequential to this.
 
Yes the debate has moved on substantially since messers JC and Strett were paying attention

You may feel speeches given by the likes of Benn back in the 1980’s are not relevant today because it was 40 years ago but the message in those speeches are just as relevant today as they were then. Much of what he has campaigned against has come to be true. The bosses in the EU are putting the workers to the sword. The latest evidence of this is the law going through EU today, forcing the car owner to only purchase spares made by the car maker. Of course they can only be fitted by an employee of the car maker. Your small garage owner will be squeezed out by the likes of BMW, VW and Mercedes. You will pay top whack for privilege. Who is this law benefitting. Not you, (high price, poor after sales, no choice) the car owner, not the small garage at end of street, not small spare part manufacturers down the road. The big companies keeping protective trade rules in place to max profits. The EU is friend of no one but the rich.

Many on here last week were complaining about the U.K. aid being cut to 0.5 % GDP. Many quoted those nice people in Brussels making noise about this cut despite it still being higher than most of member countries. The point being don’t keep countries down by giving them aid. Aid is valuable in times of crisis and should be more like 1.5% but give them trade, which sustains jobs and they won’t need aid. By being protectionist and keeping the poor poor is not the way forward for a civilised society. That is why the EU and socialist values do not fit. Benn explained this and the protectionist trading consequences. Silver spoon or not, what he said has come to pass. We took 40 years being sucked in by those lying thieves and we will take as long to untangle ourselves from their tentacles.

Teach a man to fish and he can eat for life.
 
You may feel speeches given by the likes of Benn back in the 1980’s are not relevant today because it was 40 years ago but the message in those speeches are just as relevant today as they were then. Much of what he has campaigned against has come to be true. The bosses in the EU are putting the workers to the sword. The latest evidence of this is the law going through EU today, forcing the car owner to only purchase spares made by the car maker. Of course they can only be fitted by an employee of the car maker. Your small garage owner will be squeezed out by the likes of BMW, VW and Mercedes. You will pay top whack for privilege. Who is this law benefitting. Not you, (high price, poor after sales, no choice) the car owner, not the small garage at end of street, not small spare part manufacturers down the road. The big companies keeping protective trade rules in place to max profits. The EU is friend of no one but the rich.

Many on here last week were complaining about the U.K. aid being cut to 0.5 % GDP. Many quoted those nice people in Brussels making noise about this cut despite it still being higher than most of member countries. The point being don’t keep countries down by giving them aid. Aid is valuable in times of crisis and should be more like 1.5% but give them trade, which sustains jobs and they won’t need aid. By being protectionist and keeping the poor poor is not the way forward for a civilised society. That is why the EU and socialist values do not fit. Benn explained this and the protectionist trading consequences. Silver spoon or not, what he said has come to pass. We took 40 years being sucked in by those lying thieves and we will take as long to untangle ourselves from their tentacles.

Teach a man to fish and he can eat for life.

Yeah, yeah yeah. But who will serve me my coffee in Pret?
Proper EU supporting Socialist here...

 
Sorry you are wrong. You cannot redefine socialism to fit what your perception is of it.
You may be describing leftism, welfarism, radicalism, Labourism or any of the many similar -isms. But Socialism has a definition.
So I repeat, Socialists are against the EU. This is not a debateable statement,
The fact you have left leanings and worship at the shrine of Maastricht is inconsequential to this.

i wasnt us us that mentioned socialism in this context, it was you. I simply stated that brexit was as tory as it gets which it clearly is, its about more power to less people. Im not saying toryism is fascism, left or right
 

Yes and yes again. I am not a Tory supporter. Cameron and Osbourne were both Tory and millionaires in their own right.
 
Its pretty safe to say that political leanings don't dictate whether someone supports Brexit in all cases.
In some cases, like libertarianism, then yeah Brexit is obvious.
Some people might see themselves as anti-capitalist but also believe in co-operation and the power of working together instead of against each other. That presents a dilemma.
Some people are just pragmatists and would prefer to do things in an organized, competent way, so Brexit clearly seems like a nightmare.
 
Its pretty safe to say that political leanings don't dictate whether someone supports Brexit in all cases.
In some cases, like libertarianism, then yeah Brexit is obvious.
Some people might see themselves as anti-capitalist but also believe in co-operation and the power of working together instead of against each other. That presents a dilemma.
Some people are just pragmatists and would prefer to do things in an organized, competent way, so Brexit clearly seems like a nightmare.

When you wake from a nightmare you realise it is not real. The disorganised and incompetent EU are also very real and threatening both you and me.
 
When you wake from a nightmare you realise it is not real. The disorganised and incompetent EU are also very real and threatening both you and me.
I don't get what you mean!
Brexit was clearly, and obviously completely disorganized and incompetent. There were issues that could have been solved that still haven't been because the government just doesn't give a shit. Our ministers were turning up to negotiations with literally zero preparation.
Does that mean I love the EU and wanted to stay in it? Not really.
I simply think that if we were going to leave we should have done it properly, instead of setting arbitrary time limits and then just not getting things done in time because we wasted literal years not doing anything at all for domestic petty political reasons, but then leaving anyway and having things unresolved in ways that will continue to cause damage for years.
 
I don't get what you mean!
Brexit was clearly, and obviously completely disorganized and incompetent. There were issues that could have been solved that still haven't been because the government just doesn't give a shit. Our ministers were turning up to negotiations with literally zero preparation.
Does that mean I love the EU and wanted to stay in it? Not really.
I simply think that if we were going to leave we should have done it properly, instead of setting arbitrary time limits and then just not getting things done in time because we wasted literal years not doing anything at all for domestic petty political reasons, but then leaving anyway and having things unresolved in ways that will continue to cause damage for years.

Don’t disagree with you.
 
I don't get what you mean!
Brexit was clearly, and obviously completely disorganized and incompetent. There were issues that could have been solved that still haven't been because the government just doesn't give a shit. Our ministers were turning up to negotiations with literally zero preparation.
Does that mean I love the EU and wanted to stay in it? Not really.
I simply think that if we were going to leave we should have done it properly, instead of setting arbitrary time limits and then just not getting things done in time because we wasted literal years not doing anything at all for domestic petty political reasons, but then leaving anyway and having things unresolved in ways that will continue to cause damage for years.
The urgency was driven by the need for the influencers to avoid the crackdown on tax avoidance by the rich.
 
The urgency was driven by the need for the influencers to avoid the crackdown on tax avoidance by the rich.
Yep, and it was confirmed by outsourcing of the clamour for immediate Brexit to the public, who were absolutely clueless of what was required for it to work without fucking people over.