Helicopter Safety | Vital Football

Helicopter Safety

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Nick Real Deal

Vital Football Legend
The tragic accident at Leicester it is thought Was caused by a faulty pin in the pedal mechanism. It's a bit worrying that such a fault can bring the craft down. Could they not design a safer mechanism ? This is for any aviation specialists we have in our ranks.
 
You don't have to be an expert to know that things post accident are usually made safer where fault is found; but it will never change the reality that helicopter travel as used as regularly as it was by the LCFC chairman always increased the risk of his suffering an accident - likely fatal; the bloody things are not safe because once the main rotor or tail stabiliser rotor fails there is total loss of control - no chance of gliding as with a plane - you just plunge to the ground or spins around and spiral down.
A man if his wealth could easily afford a police outrider guided motorcade to ferry his limousine through rush hour traffic- he'd didn't have to fly.
 
If the cockpit was a detachable pod a forward ejecting system could blast the passengers forward and clear of the rotors . A parachute then deploys from the top of the pod to slow it's descent. If the passengers had individual parachutes they could then bail from the pod . The pod could have air bags inside to inflate if there is not enough height for parachutes.

There you go....my contribution to air safety.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
If the cockpit was a detachable pod a forward ejecting system could blast the passengers forward and clear of the rotors . A parachute then deploys from the top of the pod to slow it's descent. If the passengers had individual parachutes they could then bail from the pod . The pod could have air bags inside to inflate if there is not enough height for parachutes.

There you go....my contribution to air safety.
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Doubtless the air safety specialist have thought of the like but as you indicate they'd need to have not just the technology but also the luck of height during any collamatity?

No.. chopper flight is per hours fly time a high risk affair and billionaires need address their egos! ?
 
Nick Real Deal said:
If the cockpit was a detachable pod a forward ejecting system could blast the passengers forward and clear of the rotors . A parachute then deploys from the top of the pod to slow it's descent. If the passengers had individual parachutes they could then bail from the pod . The pod could have air bags inside to inflate if there is not enough height for parachutes.

There you go....my contribution to air safety.
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The problem would be with your solution that if there any sort of malfunction, you'd risk ending any chance of survival from a controlled descent - as the explosive force from them being triggered by an accident would be fatal and the force needed to throw them far enough away from the rotors would probably destroy the integrity of the cockpit anyway - I seem to recall that westland developed something like this and even Sikorsky but in both cases it was deemed 'too dangerous' - I see if I can dig out some old files on it.
 
The parachute solution is becoming more prevalent in light aircraft but it needs altitude.

Low-level accidents are almost impossible to mitigate without seriously compromising the flight characteristics of the aircraft.
 
Spursex said:
The problem would be with your solution that if there any sort of malfunction, you'd risk ending any chance of survival from a controlled descent - as the explosive force from them being triggered by an accident would be fatal and the force needed to throw them far enough away from the rotors would probably destroy the integrity of the cockpit anyway - I seem to recall that westland developed something like this and even Sikorsky but in both cases it was deemed 'too dangerous' - I see if I can dig out some old files on it.
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I know it's a bit pie in the sky but rotor failure is going to result probably in an uncontrolled descent. An auto eject override could be fitted if the pilot fancied their chances of survival staying in the craft. Like I said some airbags inside the cockpit could be inflated for low height impacts. Trouble is the fire risk of course which shouldn't be a problem if the pod was ejected away from the main structure.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I know it's a bit pie in the sky but rotor failure is going to result probably in an uncontrolled descent. An auto eject override could be fitted if the pilot fancied their chances of survival staying in the craft. Like I said some airbags inside the cockpit could be inflated for low height impacts. Trouble is the fire risk of course which shouldn't be a problem if the pod was ejected away from the main structure.
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Multi rotorcraft with independently powered rotors are on the way. Also, the positioning of the rotors allows for a centralized parachute system.

The numbers don't work for what you want. Prohibitively expensive as well.
 
In 1995 A system was tested which exploded the rotors off clear which allowed conventional upward rocket seat ejectors with parachutes . Not sure what the outcome was yet.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
In 1995 A system was tested which exploded the rotors off clear which allowed conventional upward rocket seat ejectors with parachutes . Not sure what the outcome was yet.
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So working on the basis that it was tested in 1995 and it's now 2019........
 
80deg16minW said:
So working on the basis that it was tested in 1995 and it's now 2019........
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I think the 1995 system was for the Kamov KA50 which I believe is current. As you say cost will be a factor and it may only be feasible in military craft. Mind you with advances in design and materials....who knows ? If the cost added two million to each craft and the owner flying in it was a billionaire....he may go for it as an optional extra, a bit like a digital radio in an Audi !!!!!
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I think the 1995 system was for the Kamov KA50 which I believe is current. As you say cost will be a factor and it may only be feasible in military craft. Mind you with advances in design and materials....who knows ? If the cost added two million to each craft and the owner flying in it was a billionaire....he may go for it as an optional extra, a bit like a digital radio in an Audi !!!!!
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It is true that safety records help sell an aircraft to individual ownership - less so for leasing operations (which is how most still 'buy' their craft).

What it really needs is for one manufacturer to make a step change in the design(s) to increase survivability and then be seen to sell it successfully for the industry to follow - but I wouldn't hold your breath, cutting edge in this industry tends to not sell well.
 
I guess if one introduced a successful system, the others would have to follow.
I came up with my idea without any prior research. It didn't add up for me that helicopter safety couldn't be improved. I literally made a drawing for my girlfriend to visually understand the idea.

Ok my idea is obviously flawed but the concept of improving survivability in helicopters asks questions.......what price your life !!!
 
Unfortunately small things like a 'faulty pin in the pedal mechanism' do happen. When flying simple little things like someone misplacing a pencil or pen in the aircraft is cause to temporarily 'ground' the aircraft until it is found. The risk is simply too high...if the object was to make its way into the guts of the airframe and simply lodge itself in the wrong spot...well that can be catastrophic.

Lots of different safety measures being taken. I am not a helo expert by any means, but like 80 says this may have simply happened too quickly or too close to the ground for the pilot to recover...

To be blunt...sometimes shit simply happens. (not trying to take light of the situation, so please I hope no one takes offense)
 
I can imagine a billionaire walking into a helicopter shop and asking....do you have any safe choppers for sale, one that I can eject out of maybe ?

The salesman answers......Naaaahh , sometimes shit happens. Try Sikorsky mate, I think they were playing around with life saving ideas !!
 
Nick Real Deal said:
I can imagine a billionaire walking into a helicopter shop and asking....do you have any safe choppers for sale, one that I can eject out of maybe ?

The salesman answers......Naaaahh , sometimes shit happens. Try Sikorsky mate, I think they were playing around with life saving ideas !!
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There are around 2000 Billionaires in the World, many of whom would rather fly fixed wing rather than jump ships - and I agree with them.

So any production line producing such a small number of helio's would have to charge sales values that even Billionaires might baulk at paying 10 times what they'd pay today (anywhere between 3-10 mill for a decent ship), as it wouldn't only be the orginal ticket price of probably between 50-100 mill, the support contract to keep it air worthy may well be 5 x what it costs now!!

So, even in the billionaire class, you'd be aiming it at the multi-billionaires (around 5-10%) which would be potential sales of 100-200 units - at best!!

Nope, just can't see it happening.

the cost alone of setting up a new helicopter production line is estimated to be between 250-750 million and with R&D costs of 1 -2 billion the costs kill any such models stone dead!
 
Russian Kamov KA 50 in service since 1995 . Rotor release ejection system. Cost 16 million dollars in 2011. It's a military craft with bullet proof cockpit , no tail rotor bit twin counter balancing rotors driven by two engines , one as back up will operate on its own if the other fails. Plus many more military features not needed on a commercial version.

I would expect a big cost saving on a stripped down commercial version.
 
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