Has this a thread already? | Vital Football

Has this a thread already?

Ex-Ref

Vital Squad Member
#1
The BLM movement has supporters for and against. When City play their games next season, are the players expected to kneel to the movement. My own view -as an old soldier, is that the BLM movement or any other organisation that attacked our war memorials has lost all credibility. Further, as the FA were fined for having poppies on the England shirts because it was deemed a political statement, and BLM is open about it's Marxist foundations and intents, therefore they are political. Personally, I would not be very happy to see Lincoln City footballers paying homage to those that want to desecrate our sacred war memorials.
 

Imps2018

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
Hi Ex-Ref
I totally agree with what you have posted
The Statement should be All Lives Matter ALM.
BLM is a statement other lives don't matter.
At no point has anyone meant that at all.

Best analogy I’ve seen for it is: Imagine you are at a child’s funeral and somebody is giving a eulogy about how great that child was. Then imagine being the person who stands up and shouts “all children are great”.

No one is saying that All Lives don’t matter. They are simply saying that right now, Black lives are at risk. There is inequality in the system right now because of history that needs to be made aware to people so that change will happen.

With regards to the actions on the statues - Edward Colston was a corrupt slave trader and the statue should never have been there in the first place. From everything I can find he is not somebody to be proud of. Somebody like Churchill is different, leading us through WW2 is something to be celebrated - however he did unquestionably have some dubious morales. I’d much rather be on the side of people who want more education around the past than those who went and protested their right to be racist assholes.

For the FA to be fined over the poppy is ridiculous and there should be some common sense governed there.

I think football should be able to stand with the basic concept of Black Lives Matter which is society change for no racial discrimination and equal opportunities.
 

Chartist

Vital Youth Team
#4
I know several people in the police who are sick of unfounded suggestions that they are racist. Lincolnshire Police for one are extremely careful in their approach. As a teacher, I resent the hints that schools are racist. I have never seen any evidence. I'm sick of the repetitive victimhood of slavery being brought up. The millions of white slaves taken east into the Arab world have been forgotten, as are the 1.5 Muslims oppresed by China.
If the UK is so racist, why are over a third of our doctors of Asian descent and the Asian-herirage part of BAME society such a success-here and in the US? BLM is a nasty organisation so no more knees giving, please.
 

Jamesimp

Vital Squad Member
#5
At no point has anyone meant that at all.

Best analogy I’ve seen for it is: Imagine you are at a child’s funeral and somebody is giving a eulogy about how great that child was. Then imagine being the person who stands up and shouts “all children are great”.

No one is saying that All Lives don’t matter. They are simply saying that right now, Black lives are at risk. There is inequality in the system right now because of history that needs to be made aware to people so that change will happen.

With regards to the actions on the statues - Edward Colston was a corrupt slave trader and the statue should never have been there in the first place. From everything I can find he is not somebody to be proud of. Somebody like Churchill is different, leading us through WW2 is something to be celebrated - however he did unquestionably have some dubious morales. I’d much rather be on the side of people who want more education around the past than those who went and protested their right to be racist assholes.

For the FA to be fined over the poppy is ridiculous and there should be some common sense governed there.

I think football should be able to stand with the basic concept of Black Lives Matter which is society change for no racial discrimination and equal opportunities.
Thing is the analogy falls short because we are not dealing with an individual but a whole race of people. Over the last 50 years of my lifetime racism has decreased no end and is no longer such a big issue it was in say the 70s. I've seen all races are guilty of racism and extremists come in all colours. The people of today are not connected to the slave trade, it's like asking a Japanese school kid to apologise for the actions of his grandparents in the wartime prison camps.
 

kickingimp

Vital Squad Member
#6
I get the whole blm agenda, and i am fully on board with irradicating social and inherant bias. However i am really concerned with the small mindedness of judging people from the past with our morals. Colston broke no laws, he acted in a honerable way for his time and used the money he earned to better his community. If you need to judge, judge society of the time, or better still learn from it and change our society to never repeat the same mistakes. The past is just that, past. Any action we make can only change the future.
 

cherryexile

Vital 1st Team Regular
#8
I quite liked the analogy of 'Save the Whale', which (as far as I am aware) has never been interpreted with the suffix 'to the detriment of every other sea creature'.

As an interesting aside to BLM and the relevance of history, not all history is that old e.g. the 1865 13th Amendment that abolished slavery in the US was only finally ratified by the state of Mississippi in 1995 and only recorded in law in 2013. And Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981.
 

Jamesimp

Vital Squad Member
#9
I quite liked the analogy of 'Save the Whale', which (as far as I am aware) has never been interpreted with the suffix 'to the detriment of every other sea creature'.

As an interesting aside to BLM and the relevance of history, not all history is that old e.g. the 1865 13th Amendment that abolished slavery in the US was only finally ratified by the state of Mississippi in 1995 and only recorded in law in 2013. And Mauritania didn't abolish slavery until 1981.
True, but it doesn't read 'Save the Blue Whale' either, which would make it a far more accurate analogy. Also what happens in Mississippi or Mauritania has little to do with what has happened here.
 

stokeimp

Vital Squad Member
#11
True, but it doesn't read 'Save the Blue Whale' either, which would make it a far more accurate analogy. Also what happens in Mississippi or Mauritania has little to do with what has happened here.

I wonder how many black men from Mississippi - and other American states - fought and died in the European war which freed us from the threat of Nazi domination. All about freedom and democracy, yet they didn't have the vote

The whole history of the world is built on activities we would now find unacceptable, including within our own society - we'll sing Rule Britannia on last night of the proms, but our ships were manned by pressed men ie effectively slaves from our own country. Things move on around the world, but at different speeds. Due to industrialisation we were one of the first to benefit economically, and due to our trade union and Labour movements, a great deal of oppression was challenged, yet that still goes on in some other countries

Not one of us earned the right to be born in this country with all its benefits, nor did others do anything wrong to be born into third world or totalitarian regimes. If something is wrong, we should call it out
 

Jamesimp

Vital Squad Member
#14
I wonder how many black men from Mississippi - and other American states - fought and died in the European war which freed us from the threat of Nazi domination. All about freedom and democracy, yet they didn't have the vote

The whole history of the world is built on activities we would now find unacceptable, including within our own society - we'll sing Rule Britannia on last night of the proms, but our ships were manned by pressed men ie effectively slaves from our own country. Things move on around the world, but at different speeds. Due to industrialisation we were one of the first to benefit economically, and due to our trade union and Labour movements, a great deal of oppression was challenged, yet that still goes on in some other countries

Not one of us earned the right to be born in this country with all its benefits, nor did others do anything wrong to be born into third world or totalitarian regimes. If something is wrong, we should call it out
I think you're missing my point, I'm not saying that black lives or any other colour don't matter. I'm saying it's wrong to say a particular colour matters above any other, I'm also saying that what went on 60+ years ago was not down to any football fan of today or player.
 

Chimpimp

Vital Squad Member
#16
I am not a fan of political gestures forced on people, what does it prove.

People attending rallies specifically about a cause, show peoples feelings, whether it’s stop the war, BLM or protect hedgehogs.

Forcing people to make a gesture at an event where they are there for a completely different reason proves little.

Either that or the fact that no one has refused to take the knee in the matches since lockdown must mean there are no racists in football
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#17
I think you're missing my point, I'm not saying that black lives or any other colour don't matter. I'm saying it's wrong to say a particular colour matters above any other, I'm also saying that what went on 60+ years ago was not down to any football fan of today or player.
And a person of colour would say you're missing the point as well...

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NottyImp

Vital Football Legend
#19
This is a really complex issue. I think most people on here know I'm a bit of a leftie. With respect to statues I would prefer providing a plaque that explains the historical context, rather than removal. I think we'd all learn more from that.

But, equally, I understand the anger that underlies the BLM movement, particularly when a statue like that of Colston is of an actual slave-trader. That's quite a bit more unpleasant than just "a man of his time".

I also think the counter-balance to this it to ensure that modern statuary reflects the diverse nature of modern society. I actually rather liked the BLM statue that replaced- briefly! - Colston.

Well, that was a big old waffle, wasn't it?
 

Sincilbanks

Vital 1st Team Regular
#20
To be fair you're probably right, thing is none of the previous posts have explained the point or what's it got to do with a game of football if that's the case.
Well you could ask Raheem Sterling? Or Marcus Rashford? Or Adie Akenfenwa?
They seem on board with it (y'now as a person of colour and all that)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53085409

I suspect they'd rather something concrete actually happen rather than just a bulls**t handwaving in the general direction of the problem and some writing on the back of a shirt, but I guess they should just be grateful for those small crumbs while the rest of the world goes about forgetting about the whole subject...