Harry Winks - Player Thread | Page 3 | Vital Football

Harry Winks - Player Thread

Winksy is drawing praise from various quarters after his England performance. Pundits and ex pros are chipping in with favourable comments. I'm not getting carried away as the opposition was poor. But Harry looked fit and sharp, his passing although mostly unpressured was accurate. He put in a real shift and was very focused positionally.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Winksy is drawing praise from various quarters after his England performance. Pundits and ex pros are chipping in with favourable comments. I'm not getting carried away as the opposition was poor. But Harry looked fit and sharp, his passing although mostly unpressured was accurate. He put in a real shift and was very focused positionally.
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Czech were also poor, but Rice didn't excel. In fact Rice has constantly looked like a centre half playing in midfield when I've seen him live for his country. Winks seems a little short on pace (like Scotty Parker) but has the ability to knit it all together from the middle of the park. He actually offers the ball and trusts himself to move it on and retain possession. Rice isn't offering for the ball in those tight areas and keeps making out he's marked.

It's food for thought for Poch how to get the best out of Winks. I don't think Sissoko does that in the way that a positionally intelligent player like Hendo does. It's not about ability as neither have much at their feet.
 
muttley said:
Czech were also poor, but Rice didn't excel. In fact Rice has constantly looked like a centre half playing in midfield when I've seen him live for his country. Winks seems a little short on pace (like Scotty Parker) but has the ability to knit it all together from the middle of the park. He actually offers the ball and trusts himself to move it on and retain possession. Rice isn't offering for the ball in those tight areas and keeps making out he's marked.

It's food for thought for Poch how to get the best out of Winks. I don't think Sissoko does that in the way that a positionally intelligent player like Hendo does. It's not about ability as neither have much at their feet.
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Good point re Sissoko/Winks. For me it's a partnership whether neither player complements the other - more so Sissoko to Winks. And even when both players play well individually, the midfield still looks disjointed, lacking control. It will be a tough one for Poch to solve given that he seems to rate both players highly. Having said that, he (Poch) probably doesn't think it is a problem at all.
 
I like Winks a lot but I wish he had a more creative and cut throat side to his play. Also he is in danger of becoming the next Sissoko in terms of return on shooting as he rarely does shoot, albeit he rarely misses whilst Sissoko shoots and always misses ha ha!
 
Gary Onedaysoon said:
Good point re Sissoko/Winks. For me it's a partnership whether neither player complements the other - more so Sissoko to Winks. And even when both players play well individually, the midfield still looks disjointed, lacking control. It will be a tough one for Poch to solve given that he seems to rate both players highly. Having said that, he (Poch) probably doesn't think it is a problem at all.
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If Dier and Ndombele were both fit and match sharp, Lo Celso and Sessegnon injury free and Alli performing....Poch would have more options in his MF set up. I dont think we should be thinking long term with Sissoko starting in MF as he is. It's a short term fix.
 
My opinion on the relative merits of these players is that Sissoko is capable of playing in a team at the top of the Epl where there is very good movement in its front three. For example he would be an asset in Liverpool's team as he would simply be about bursting with the ball from the edge of his box and giving it to Firminho to provide their uber mobile front three. But they have the luxury of pacey center back and full back and athletic partners for him in CM. Winks is not a ball winner and the only way to get the best from him would be a hungry athlete to win the ball for him. Then you need a very creative player to see that forward ball that he and Sissoko cant see. Isco? Fernandes for me.
 
spurdon said:
My opinion on the relative merits of these players is that Sissoko is capable of playing in a team at the top of the Epl where there is very good movement in its front three. For example he would be an asset in Liverpool's team as he would simply be about bursting with the ball from the edge of his box and giving it to Firminho to provide their uber mobile front three. But they have the luxury of pacey center back and full back and athletic partners for him in CM. Winks is not a ball winner and the only way to get the best from him would be a hungry athlete to win the ball for him. Then you need a very creative player to see that forward ball that he and Sissoko cant see. Isco? Fernandes for me.
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In my opinion, Sissoko would need to be way more disciplined to play in a Klopp system in what is currently Hendo's role. Hendo is playing on the right of Fabinho who is the deepest of the 3. Klopp would enjoy Sissoko's work rate and driving the ball forward but he wouldn't tolerate Sissoko getting in Trent's way and filling the space that Salah so well exploits. He definitely wouldn't tolerate Sissoko leaving Fabinho exposed at the back as much as he does Winks.

I know it was only Bulgaria, but I thought Hendo helped Winks have a fantastic game. He never left him exposed and worked with him the entire game. He was constantly pulling players around and opening up gaps for Winks to thread balls into. He was also offering for one-twos. For me, Hendo sort of showed how you can be all action but still be very disciplined, and Sissoko could learn a lot from him. In reality, so could Ndombele on the left of Winks who isn't owning his midfield area or getting tight with Winks defensively.

For me, this all comes down to having a fully fit Dele and finally getting access to Lo Celso. The more talented, intelligent, hard working players we put together in that midfield area the more it will come together.
 
muttley said:
In my opinion, Sissoko would need to be way more disciplined to play in a Klopp system in what is currently Hendo's role. Hendo is playing on the right of Fabinho who is the deepest of the 3. Klopp would enjoy Sissoko's work rate and driving the ball forward but he wouldn't tolerate Sissoko getting in Trent's way and filling the space that Salah so well exploits. He definitely wouldn't tolerate Sissoko leaving Fabinho exposed at the back as much as he does Winks.

I know it was only Bulgaria, but I thought Hendo helped Winks have a fantastic game. He never left him exposed and worked with him the entire game. He was constantly pulling players around and opening up gaps for Winks to thread balls into. He was also offering for one-twos. For me, Hendo sort of showed how you can be all action but still be very disciplined, and Sissoko could learn a lot from him. In reality, so could Ndombele on the left of Winks who isn't owning his midfield area or getting tight with Winks defensively.

For me, this all comes down to having a fully fit Dele and finally getting access to Lo Celso. The more talented, intelligent, hard working players we put together in that midfield area the more it will come together.
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So what your saying is Klopp would coach him...well I am shocked quick get a message to someone at Hotspur way. Seriously mate we'd all be salivating over Sissoko under a Klopp regime. He fix him with (drum roll) coaching in six months
 
spurdon said:
So what your saying is Klopp would coach him...well I am shocked quick get a message to someone at Hotspur way. Seriously mate we'd all be salivating over Sissoko under a Klopp regime. He fix him with (drum roll) coaching in six months
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I'm not saying that at all. Sissoko has had the same issues for Newcastle, France and now us. He is the common denominator and I doubt whether Klopp could tame him more than any other manager ever has. In my opinion, Poch has optimised what Sissoko has. I think the plateau point has been reached and some of these asks are a stretch too far for the player himself.

Also worth remembering Klopp had the choice of buying either Sissoko or Wijnaldum in the same summer window in 2016. He spent £22m with some add-ons and got a fantastic player. We bought Sissoko for £30m on transfer deadline day. That tells me the difference between the clubs. Wijnaldum is also limited but, like Hendo, that football brain stays in overdrive for the 90 mins. He can also get 5 or 6 goals and assists each season. Sissoko is a model pro nowadays, but limited. That probably qualifies him for the captain armband like it did with Dawson :-)
 
muttley said:
I'm not saying that at all. Sissoko has had the same issues for Newcastle, France and now us. He is the common denominator and I doubt whether Klopp could tame him more than any other manager ever has. In my opinion, Poch has optimised what Sissoko has. I think the plateau point has been reached and some of these asks are a stretch too far for the player himself.

Also worth remembering Klopp had the choice of buying either Sissoko or Wijnaldum in the same summer window in 2016. He spent £22m with some add-ons and got a fantastic player. We bought Sissoko for £30m on transfer deadline day. That tells me the difference between the clubs. Wijnaldum is also limited but, like Hendo, that football brain stays in overdrive for the 90 mins. He can also get 5 or 6 goals and assists each season. Sissoko is a model pro nowadays, but limited. That probably qualifies him for the captain armband like it did with Dawson :-)
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I disagree I one hundred percent believe we would get a far better way more effect Sissoko under Klopps coaching. Going to have to agree to differ.
 
spurdon said:
I disagree I one hundred percent believe we would get a far better way more effect Sissoko under Klopps coaching. Going to have to agree to differ.
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Would it have to be Klopp to extract more from Sissoko ? I am starting to see him as a marauder more than a shield to our CBs. He has a great engine and his role can change within a game . Poch knows this and mentioned that Sissoko is unique with that transitional quality.
 
Nick Real Deal said:
Would it have to be Klopp to extract more from Sissoko ? I am starting to see him as a marauder more than a shield to our CBs. He has a great engine and his role can change within a game . Poch knows this and mentioned that Sissoko is unique with that transitional quality.
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Dont know Nick, there maybe other coaches but Klopp seems very good at identifying what he wants from a player and getting them to do it. Adam Llanna, Alex Chamberlin, Naby Keita, Genie Wynadum. Just off my head he changed and noticeably improved specific parts of their game. I also saw Sarri try and fail to change Kante. It clearly takes work and patience. If you believe the stories of Poch no longer leaving his office to watch training makes you wonder.
 
spurdon said:
Dont know Nick, there maybe other coaches but Klopp seems very good at identifying what he wants from a player and getting them to do it. Adam Llanna, Alex Chamberlin, Naby Keita, Genie Wynadum. Just off my head he changed and noticeably improved specific parts of their game. I also saw Sarri try and fail to change Kante. It clearly takes work and patience. If you believe the stories of Poch no longer leaving his office to watch training makes you wonder.
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Poch was in the gym greeting all the players with handshakes. Atmosphere looked jovial. Video on club website.
 
muttley said:
In my opinion, Sissoko would need to be way more disciplined to play in a Klopp system in what is currently Hendo's role. Hendo is playing on the right of Fabinho who is the deepest of the 3. Klopp would enjoy Sissoko's work rate and driving the ball forward but he wouldn't tolerate Sissoko getting in Trent's way and filling the space that Salah so well exploits. He definitely wouldn't tolerate Sissoko leaving Fabinho exposed at the back as much as he does Winks.

I know it was only Bulgaria, but I thought Hendo helped Winks have a fantastic game. He never left him exposed and worked with him the entire game. He was constantly pulling players around and opening up gaps for Winks to thread balls into. He was also offering for one-twos. For me, Hendo sort of showed how you can be all action but still be very disciplined, and Sissoko could learn a lot from him. In reality, so could Ndombele on the left of Winks who isn't owning his midfield area or getting tight with Winks defensively.

For me, this all comes down to having a fully fit Dele and finally getting access to Lo Celso. The more talented, intelligent, hard working players we put together in that midfield area the more it will come together.
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Well said. As we have said without a DM type next to him he won't develop here. Madness we are in this situation two years running.
 
Vinny sideways of the current team. Harry beats a player then drives forward but stops and passes backwards or sideways 90% of the time
 
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