GUN CONTROL

[Welshtel]

I've had it on my mind over the last few weeks to put up this thread. The carnage in Orlando, Jo Cox, and other events just push the envelope in terms of unbelief that society tolerates nothing being done to stem the invasion of guns into our countries.

To keep the argument firmly here for a moment, where did the gunman in the Birstall killing of Jo Cox get his weapon? Then ask yourself where all these weapons come from and why aren't they prevented?
HOW COME BRITISH SOCIETY HAS GOT INTO THIS STATE?

To switch to the USA for a moment and the shootings there. HOW COME the US authorities have not simply stated that NO private person needs an automatic weapon? OK defend your homes, if you must do it yourself, if your police aren't up to the task, with a gun but surely a Smith and Wesson .38 or even .44 is enough for that, powerful guns to be certain. WHY WOULD ANYONE want an automatic weapon, what are they expecting to come through the door? A battalion? Now they have a situation where 50 were wiped out by a nutter that they knew about being unstable that got hold of an automatic weapon. CRAZY to have allowed it! The FBI need a makeover.

Whichever you agree with, no guns, guns or unlimited guns, we have to sort out a sense of reason that puts society into a safe, protected state without allowing extremes to take over.

To my mind, not enough is being spent on keeping the people of this country (and the USA too) safe. Not enough is spent on illegal immigration and illegal imports. We have instead allowed an 'anything goes' situation and borders MUST be an issue with us leaking all sorts of things. DRUGS too, same thing, so where is the law putting a stop to things? IS it that we are too soft on crime and too underfunded to stop it? Is there enough funding but is it that there is corruption in the law enforcement agencies that allows stuff to enter the country? In this case we need to spend more on creating departments that look at making sure corruption cannot exist.

The long and short of it is that we aren't doing enough and too many are able to get hold of weapons and things that they should not be able to. I'm naive? No. Simple facts say that this is what we should be aiming at, getting society straight. And if this or any other government can't or won't do it, get rid of them. We need to fight issues with politicians that WILL get it done. The political parties are only interested in their own brand of administration, how about a cross-party group that is dedicated to STOPPING illegal imports of ANYTHING for example?

How about anything that is both PROPER and EFFECTIVE at stopping the rot?

 

[meee93]

Was it not a home made gun that the guy who killed Jo Coz used?

 

[MAN ON!]

Welshtel, I get your angst and I fully understand your concerns. Honestly and sincerely I do but, tell me this: How often in this country does this kind of gun problem rear it's ugly head? How many of us have witnessed gun crime on the streets of the UK or have known others to?

I have witnessed it myself but I've yet to meet many people that were not completely shocked by my experience and had nothing to compare it to themselves.

There has always been a problem with guns in the UK but it's always been a relatively small one. People are not getting gunned down left, right and centre on a regular basis.

If a man wants to kill another man, the lack of access to a firearm ain't gonna stop him.

Extremes are not taking over. I'm not sure why you yourself or anyone else would believe this to be so.

The USA is another kettle of fish altogether. It cannot, in any way, be compared to the UK.

Likewise with drugs. If there is a slim or zero supply of imported drugs do you really think the problem will cease?

Many drugs on the streets of the UK are now grown and manufactured within our own borders.

We can offer controls to whatever extent but it's an impossible task to stop these "crimes" completely.

Corruption? Show me a man and show me money, power and greed, then corruption will rear it's ugly head. To eradicate it is also an impossibility, unfortunately.

These problems are the way of the world and have been since the year dot.

If we want less of these problems, it's up to the individual man himself, within his own heart. There are no politicians, men of cloth or of apparent moral standing that can realistically help. It's been going on since long before our own mere existence and will continue long after we have left this Mortal Coil.

Beauty exists in this world in so many more forms than the ugliness that is concerning you. It's mostly free and in abundance. Enjoy it and help others to as well.

PEACE!

 

[Welshtel]

meee93 - 17/6/2016 13:47

Was it not a home made gun that the guy who killed Jo Coz used?

Oh agreed but there are lots of guns about in the UK as has been reported as being used by gangs and the need for armed response units have only endorsed the fact that they exist. If there is a way to detect them being made or more practically, if people go on the websites that give details of how to make them, then that sort of surveillance should be acted on. Surely homeland security is about using detection on or off the net and is a must. People should also be encouraged more to report activity they have seen where people make guns that are not being registered.

 

[Welshtel]

MAN ON! - 17/6/2016 13:52

Welshtel, I get your angst and I fully understand your concerns. Honestly and sincerely I do but, tell me this: How often in this country does this kind of gun problem rear it's ugly head? How many of us have witnessed gun crime on the streets of the UK or have known others to?

I have witnessed it myself but I've yet to meet many people that were not completely shocked by my experience and had nothing to compare it to themselves.

There has always been a problem with guns in the UK but it's always been a relatively small one. People are not getting gunned down left, right and centre on a regular basis.

If a man wants to kill another man, the lack of access to a firearm ain't gonna stop him.

Extremes are not taking over. I'm not sure why you yourself or anyone else would believe this to be so.

The USA is another kettle of fish altogether. It cannot, in any way, be compared to the UK.

Likewise with drugs. If there is a slim or zero supply of imported drugs do you really think the problem will cease?

Many drugs on the streets of the UK are now grown and manufactured within our own borders.

We can offer controls to whatever extent but it's an impossible task to stop these "crimes" completely.

Corruption? Show me a man and show me money, power and greed, then corruption will rear it's ugly head. To eradicate it is also an impossibility, unfortunately.

These problems are the way of the world and have been since the year dot.

If we want less of these problems, it's up to the individual man himself, within his own heart. There are no politicians, men of cloth or of apparent moral standing that can realistically help. It's been going on since long before our own mere existence and will continue long after we have left this Mortal Coil.

Beauty exists in this world in so many more forms than the ugliness that is concerning you. It's mostly free and in abundance. Enjoy it and help others to as well.

PEACE!

Points taken 'MAN ON'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying these things out of panic or as a response to Jo Cox's murder, I'm making a point using those news items as examples that guns are available one way or another and we need to take actions now that will affect our future. So many times we have not done so, immigration being one issue that could have been prevented if we acted properly years ago.

I agree, we do not (thankfully) get many gun crimes. The fact that there are a lot of guns around with gangs as I've said in the previous post is a worry, not that I'm the worrying kind, I'm concerned for the rest of the country and the way that our society could go.

Of course we are completely shocked when we hear of these things but we need to be and keep our society that way. Having seen so many guns surrendered when there has been an amnesty is a great testimony to our people and their love of keeping the law and doing the right thing. As you say, if someone wants to kill another, they will do it and knives are also a growing problem that needs to be acted on. Extreme things are quietly getting more common, to sweep that notion under the carpet would be to ignore a growing problem, which we cannot do. We need to alert to the quiet growth of all problems, which as a nation, we are normally self regulating at.

The fact that you quite glibly say that corruption is the way of the world and seem to accept it is and that it will happen is exactly what I'm saying, that we cannot ignore small rises and trends to the bad. Good societies make better and better judgements and tailor their laws and legislation to make things improve. Idealism? Utopiaism? maybe but surely we would be wrong to not try and make things better.

We're NOT like the 'States', thank God but they have different rules that they like to live by but the point I've made is that even there where they have guns, they could cut down problems considerably by banning automatic weapons from the public.

I disagree that people talking about it won't make a difference. When you air a view that has good morals to it, you confirm the right things to people in doing so. The decent people will listen to you and agree happily. If there are those who don't agree, many of them will feel isolated in their view, which they should do if the argument is compellingly for the good of everyone. The secret of a good nation/society is where people love good and harmony. As you say, "PEACE!" Ugliness in the form of malice DOES concern me, which is why I set up this thread, to get the point aired and raise awareness of our nations needs.

 

[MAN ON!]

Thanks for your open and honest response.

I didn't intend to be glib in my sentence about corruption. I despise it. It's about greed and power and it is, sadly, deeply embedded in the dark-sided nature of man.

My real point in all of this, is my cynical awareness that all of these bad traits and behaviours are inherent in mankind and one immoral or wrong form of behaviour begets another.

My point about politicians etc; is not so much about individual crusaders and those with a good heart, it is about the nature of politics, religion and the power of these establishments in general. History informs me of world controlled and manipulated by authority, faith and money. This is centuries old and not about to change.

My cynicism in all this, stems from believing that the more supposedly sophisticated, educated and civilised we have become as humans, the more we have encouraged selfishness, greed and the cult of the individual against the togetherness of family and community.

Divide and conquer has worked well in our society and "freedom" seems more a fallacy than ever, within our so-called western values and moral standings.

Having said all this, I do believe that most of us as individuals, as part of our families and as members of our diverse and changing communities, do stand for good and do care for each other when the going gets tough and unacceptable.

I do however also think that forever highlighting the negatives inherent in our race and making generalised and sweeping statements based on individual and isolated acts of violence is both alarmist and paranoid. I feel it only fuels the hatred of some and scares the rest of us into isolation and fear.

The reports we get via our media outlets and in turn, repeated, enlarged and put out of all proportion through the social media platforms is, by the nature of the beast, only ever gonna be bad and sensationalised.

If we want to encourage the good and the love of Humankind, we need to find a balance to the negativity and emphasise the positives in us humans, life and the world, that are more than evident, if we look close enough.

Sorry for the ramble but I hope you can understand some of what I'm getting at.

 

[MAN ON!]

My words, in general were not aimed at you personally as I agree with a lot of what you have written and you do make a lot of sense to me.

I am essentially an optimist, albeit with a large dose of cynicism thrown in. (This can serve to confuse a man).
:-(

 

[Welshtel]

Hi 'MAN ON'. Hey, this forum is about being able to speak our thoughts with freedom, as it should be in all society. I don't think anyone's thoughts should be given with fear of guilt, if that's what they think, that's fine, I know we will disagree with that to some degree but that's peoples right to do so.