Greedy big PL bastards at it again | Vital Football

Greedy big PL bastards at it again

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#2
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54499998

The level of kuntery is really quite remarkable.

Scrap the league cup, because the 4 clubs who always win it don't want to play in it.

Reduce the size of the PL

Playoffs will include a PL team in third bottom, so there might only be 2 going up in some years and no sixth place playoff position

And the big six plus West Ham, Everton and Southampton get "special status" which means if 6 of those 9 clubs vote for something it gets through- basically, the big six

I honestly wonder whether I can be arsed with football if the ***** from Liverpool and MayYoo get this through.

I've been going to some non league games recently and really enjoying it
 

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#3
To be honest this has been floating round for many years to reduce the number of games so the top clubs were more competitive in Europe.

Problem is they don’t want to lose the income from losing the games and they also can’t figure out how to relegate the extra teams or promote less as there are legal ramifications to both options.

It’s one of the reasons I enjoy the Championship so much. More exciting and although it isn’t a paragon of virtue this league is far more honest than the top flight.
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#4
To be honest this has been floating round for many years to reduce the number of games so the top clubs were more competitive in Europe.

Problem is they don’t want to lose the income from losing the games and they also can’t figure out how to relegate the extra teams or promote less as there are legal ramifications to both options.
Yes, because English clubs desperately need help to be competitive in Europe...
... This being the league that locked out both European finals in 2019
 

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#5
Yes, because English clubs desperately need help to be competitive in Europe...
... This being the league that locked out both European finals in 2019
And where were they this season? Typically the Euro finals are dominated by the Spanish who play less games (or that’s one of the excuses used).
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#6
And where were they this season? Typically the Euro finals are dominated by the Spanish who play less games (or that’s one of the excuses used).
No, they are dominated by Madrid and Barcelona who have this very annoying and pretty much self propagandised "status" amongst footballers
La Liga also has 20 teams, as does Serie A. Bundesliga has 18.

But the real advantage the Spanish clubs have is lack of competition.

They play maybe 4-6 highly competitive league games a year, at most. The vast majority are a stroll.

The premier League is hyper competitive. Not only do the winners have to play around at least 10-12 highly competitive games against the other top clubs, but absolutely any random PL game can and does suddenly become a banana skin. You can't piss about with clubs like Wolves, Leicester or Everton, but even your Brighton's and Villas can give you a bloody nose.

That is the difference.

So, do they want our league to become more of a walkover? Of course they do
 

mao tse tung

Vital Football Hero
#7
I have been predicting this kind of carve up for a while; they have to get sufficient support from the other PL Clubs before any changes are effected and that will not be a given.
 

seasider red

Vital Reserves Team
#9
I believe Their greed will eventually split the PL apart. The "big" clubs at some point in the future will no doubt decide they don't want to share the "goodies" with the smaller clubs, they will end the collective selling of PL TV rights and will go their own way in selling their own rights world wide.
 

Will.NFFC

Vital 1st Team Regular
#11
They’ll gain support through effectively bribing their way to it with one big one off financial package for clubs that currently need it lower down the chain.
 

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#13
No, they are dominated by Madrid and Barcelona who have this very annoying and pretty much self propagandised "status" amongst footballers
La Liga also has 20 teams, as does Serie A. Bundesliga has 18.

But the real advantage the Spanish clubs have is lack of competition.

They play maybe 4-6 highly competitive league games a year, at most. The vast majority are a stroll.

The premier League is hyper competitive. Not only do the winners have to play around at least 10-12 highly competitive games against the other top clubs, but absolutely any random PL game can and does suddenly become a banana skin. You can't piss about with clubs like Wolves, Leicester or Everton, but even your Brighton's and Villas can give you a bloody nose.

That is the difference.

So, do they want our league to become more of a walkover? Of course they do
Sevilla? Atletico Madrid?

Look at their cup competition. Only one and it’s shorter than ours.

Lack of competition is also not something we can argue after the last two seasons. And how many times in recent memory has it been even a 3 horse race...?

You could also argue the point that lack of competition in the league doesn’t translate so well to Europe. Just ask PSG.

The top clubs want competition but only the right competition and they want a greater share of the current pot not a smaller one.

I have no doubt the top clubs want to shaft everyone else for their own gain but this and other ideas like it have been around since the premier league formed. Remember Gartside’s plan to make it a closed shop...?
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#14
Sevilla? Atletico Madrid?

Look at their cup competition. Only one and it’s shorter than ours.

Lack of competition is also not something we can argue after the last two seasons. And how many times in recent memory has it been even a 3 horse race...?

You could also argue the point that lack of competition in the league doesn’t translate so well to Europe. Just ask PSG.

The top clubs want competition but only the right competition and they want a greater share of the current pot not a smaller one.

I have no doubt the top clubs want to shaft everyone else for their own gain but this and other ideas like it have been around since the premier league formed. Remember Gartside’s plan to make it a closed shop...?
No, you aren't listening.

It has nothing to do with how tight the actual title race is

No top club in our PL can afford to stroll through the majority of games

Look at Madrid and Barcelona. How many games in the league do they need to bring their "A" game to?

Each other. Athletico. Yes, Sevilla some seasons. That's it. They can afford to play in third gear or less for lost of them. PSG can afford to play in second gear most of the time.

Not so in the PL. Yes, occasionally the PL lays down and dies to allow a team to walk it; Liverpool last season, Leicester a few ago; but mostly you are being suicidal if you bring anything less than your A game to the top ten. And you'll still get a bloody nose now and again if you bring any less to even the worst teams.

Barcelona can play PSG on Tuesday and afford to play the second choice players on Saturday, or their first choice players can usually take it fairly easy and still win.

The difference to this proposal is that Rick Parry had given it his approval, blinded by the short term cash injection
 

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#15
No, you aren't listening.

It has nothing to do with how tight the actual title race is

No top club in our PL can afford to stroll through the majority of games

Look at Madrid and Barcelona. How many games in the league do they need to bring their "A" game to?

Each other. Athletico. Yes, Sevilla some seasons. That's it. They can afford to play in third gear or less for lost of them. PSG can afford to play in second gear most of the time.

Not so in the PL. Yes, occasionally the PL lays down and dies to allow a team to walk it; Liverpool last season, Leicester a few ago; but mostly you are being suicidal if you bring anything less than your A game to the top ten. And you'll still get a bloody nose now and again if you bring any less to even the worst teams.

Barcelona can play PSG on Tuesday and afford to play the second choice players on Saturday, or their first choice players can usually take it fairly easy and still win.

The difference to this proposal is that Rick Parry had given it his approval, blinded by the short term cash injection
I am listening I just disagree.

Juventus have dominated their league for a decade. How many European cups have they won? PSG? Rangers and Celtic?

Look at results between English and Spanish clubs in Europe. If they were so far adrift compared to our clubs it would be a walk over. It isn’t.

Last season Real won a 38 game season with 87 points. Barca had 82, Atletico and Sevilla has 70.

By contrast Liverpool 99, Man City 81 with Man Utd and Chelsea on 66.

Your argument is flawed. The only thing you can say is that our top two or three tend to rotate more. Doesn’t make it more competitive.

As for Rick Parry’s support making it different. How? This isn’t the first time this sort of proposal has been made. It probably won’t be the last but I will believe it is going through when they start getting over the numerous hurdles there will be.
 

mao tse tung

Vital Football Hero
#16
No, you aren't listening.

It has nothing to do with how tight the actual title race is

No top club in our PL can afford to stroll through the majority of games

Look at Madrid and Barcelona. How many games in the league do they need to bring their "A" game to?

Each other. Athletico. Yes, Sevilla some seasons. That's it. They can afford to play in third gear or less for lost of them. PSG can afford to play in second gear most of the time.

Not so in the PL. Yes, occasionally the PL lays down and dies to allow a team to walk it; Liverpool last season, Leicester a few ago; but mostly you are being suicidal if you bring anything less than your A game to the top ten. And you'll still get a bloody nose now and again if you bring any less to even the worst teams.

Barcelona can play PSG on Tuesday and afford to play the second choice players on Saturday, or their first choice players can usually take it fairly easy and still win.

The difference to this proposal is that Rick Parry had given it his approval, blinded by the short term cash injection
It does not work like that in reality.

Generally, the more competitive the League the better the players and the teams are for it in the long run

All of the top sides have similar squad sizes and rotate to a small degree, but not as much as they could.

Take Real Madrid for example; you would think they would rest several players when up against lowly sides but they do not.

Lat season, for example, Caravhal, Ramos, Varane, Kroos, Benzema, Modric, Courtois, Casamero and Valverde all played over 30 league games, which, when you take in injuries and suspensions, is a fairly settled side playing the majority of games.
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#17
I am listening I just disagree.

Juventus have dominated their league for a decade. How many European cups have they won? PSG? Rangers and Celtic?

Look at results between English and Spanish clubs in Europe. If they were so far adrift compared to our clubs it would be a walk over. It isn’t.

Last season Real won a 38 game season with 87 points. Barca had 82, Atletico and Sevilla has 70.

By contrast Liverpool 99, Man City 81 with Man Utd and Chelsea on 66.

Your argument is flawed. The only thing you can say is that our top two or three tend to rotate more. Doesn’t make it more competitive.

As for Rick Parry’s support making it different. How? This isn’t the first time this sort of proposal has been made. It probably won’t be the last but I will believe it is going through when they start getting over the numerous hurdles there will be.
I say you aren't listening because you keep comparing apples with pears by talking about the winning margins in the leagues. That has very little relevance to my argument. You are obsessing about the top three and winning margins, whereas my argument is about the effect of the rest of the PL on them
 

Pope John XXIII

Vital Football Legend
#18
It does not work like that in reality.

Generally, the more competitive the League the better the players and the teams are for it in the long run

All of the top sides have similar squad sizes and rotate to a small degree, but not as much as they could.

Take Real Madrid for example; you would think they would rest several players when up against lowly sides but they do not.

Lat season, for example, Caravhal, Ramos, Varane, Kroos, Benzema, Modric, Courtois, Casamero and Valverde all played over 30 league games, which, when you take in injuries and suspensions, is a fairly settled side playing the majority of games.
But this is my argument. How many games to they have to put in a proper shift for? How many really difficult games do they have? How many where they can stroll through in second gear?

It would be interesting to compare the stats on distance covered of players in top leagues as well.

And a competitive league has not had a particularly negative effect on english teams in European competition has it?

England clubs must be second behind Spain this century. But three different clubs have won the trophy with only the best Barcelona side in history and Madrid represented for Spain. Sevilla's dominance of the Sevilla cup is one of those abberations of football; not that they aren't a very good side, but it is unusual and I suspect is down more to confidence and belief now than anything
 

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#19
The rankings are Spain, Germany, England and Italy with Spain miles ahead in the rankings.

only 3 countries can have 4 Champions League places. There is a points system in place over a rolling 5 year period and again we are 3rd but there have been times where we have nearly lost that place to Italy.

Again you say only 3 Spanish clubs have won anything in Europe. I give you Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool.

And how often have our top clubs cantered to a title. I dare say if you look this century you will see very little variance between the English and Spanish leagues. Distance covered is not the be all and end all for top players and clubs.

One of the big differences however is that the other Leagues support their clubs in Europe and move fixtures. The Premier League and EFL only do that if it suits them.
 
Last edited:

Basha73

Vital 1st Team Regular
#20
I say you aren't listening because you keep comparing apples with pears by talking about the winning margins in the leagues. That has very little relevance to my argument. You are obsessing about the top three and winning margins, whereas my argument is about the effect of the rest of the PL on them
Then you aren’t putting your point across well enough because I still just plain disagree with what you seem to be saying.

Look at the league tables and tell me there’s much difference. There isn’t apart from the fact that in recent years our top two, three or four have scored more points than the Spanish league implying that their league is as competitive if not more so.

Telling me that Real and Barca haven’t had to work as hard in a season where Liverpool finished a dozen points better off is just plain wrong.

The points earned and winning margins are a direct result of the effect of the rest of the league. Or are they not playing these teams week in, week out?