Greece

T

toms

Vital Football Legend
Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
 
The Greeks are somewhat like Forest - do not pay their debts

Course the Greeks will vote against the measures - it is like a turkey voting for Christmas.

They owe YOU AND ME the money and they should be paying up.

It is a political stunt
 
Or an act of political cowardice.

People vote against it- they go back to Europe and the IMF, shrug their shoulders and say "it's not our fault".

People vote for it- they say "you voted for it" whenever people protest
 
toms - 27/6/2015 09:46

Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
Click to expand...

Yes toms it's democracy in action all right but doesn't change my opinion that they've been living too well for too long.



Most things have to be paid for in the long run !

 
Old Red Fart - 27/6/2015 10:19

toms - 27/6/2015 09:46

Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
Click to expand...

Yes toms it's democracy in action all right but doesn't change my opinion that they've been living too well for too long.



Most things have to be paid for in the long run !
Click to expand...

I agree ORF but for me its the right thing to do...hold a referendum... the will of the people is key...people should be the masters of their own destiny not politicians making bad deals
 
Pope John XXIII - 27/6/2015 10:17

Or an act of political cowardice.

People vote against it- they go back to Europe and the IMF, shrug their shoulders and say "it's not our fault".

People vote for it- they say "you voted for it" whenever people protest
Click to expand...

Isnt that the way it should be on issues of such magnitude....let the people decide their future...I would have done the same...they were elected on an austerity platform...they cant reach the deal they want....this will be a vote of no confidence in the greek govt...or a vote to maintain the status quo....I don't think its political cowardice because if they lose they in my opinion will have to call elections and in fact they should because they were elected on a platform of austerity measures plus staying in the eu
 
No mention of the central banks that create the money out of thin air and put it into economies as debt plus interest?

FFIV, they don't owe US any money. The world as a whole is in debt and it's in debt to the central banks.
 
toms - 27/6/2015 10:37

Old Red Fart - 27/6/2015 10:19

toms - 27/6/2015 09:46

Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
Click to expand...

Yes toms it's democracy in action all right but doesn't change my opinion that they've been living too well for too long.



Most things have to be paid for in the long run !
Click to expand...

I agree ORF but for me its the right thing to do...hold a referendum... the will of the people is key...people should be the masters of their own destiny not politicians making bad deals
Click to expand...

And the entire Greek nation, half of whom don't recognise the need to pay their taxes, now have just 8 days to understand both the deal on the table and the potential consequences of default and exit from the Euro- and then make an informed choice.

Sorry, I'm with ORF- this is Southern Europeans having their cake and eating it. I don't want to see Greece crushed and I want them treated much more sensibly. But this country owes a lot of money and needs an incentive to change their culture economically
 
Please, anyone that is reading this thread watch the following 2 documentaries and then you'll see the REAL problems:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4It8bMdqs0M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDtBSiI13fE
 
JC21 - 27/6/2015 10:43

So you agree with the austerity measures in this country then Pope?
Click to expand...

I disagree with implementing austerity for ideological reasons.

I don't know enough about the Greek economy to comment on austerity there in detail. I do know that the young and the old have been very harshly hit, and this I disagree with. I also dislike the he relish their creditors seem to have for these cuts. But at the same time I don't know how "lavish" the original spending in these areas was.

What I feel Greece needs though is a change in their economic culture. It is the extremely Laissez-faire attitude to paying and collecting taxes that is at the root of many of the problems. Nothing the creditors are proposing, and nothing the Greeks are promising seems likely to change that.

Instead, the Greeks seem fairly interested in trying to wipe the slate clean without addressing any of those issues

 
Pope John XXIII - 27/6/2015 10:41

toms - 27/6/2015 10:37

Old Red Fart - 27/6/2015 10:19

toms - 27/6/2015 09:46

Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
Click to expand...

Yes toms it's democracy in action all right but doesn't change my opinion that they've been living too well for too long.



Most things have to be paid for in the long run !
Click to expand...

I agree ORF but for me its the right thing to do...hold a referendum... the will of the people is key...people should be the masters of their own destiny not politicians making bad deals
Click to expand...

And the entire Greek nation, half of whom don't recognise the need to pay their taxes, now have just 8 days to understand both the deal on the table and the potential consequences of default and exit from the Euro- and then make an informed choice.

Sorry, I'm with ORF- this is Southern Europeans having their cake and eating it. I don't want to see Greece crushed and I want them treated much more sensibly. But this country owes a lot of money and needs an incentive to change their culture economically
Click to expand...

I dont deny any of this...but the people must decide their fate. If they vote no the consequences could be worse at least in the short term. But that is a choice the people must take. If they vote in then they must take the consequences of that
 
toms - 27/6/2015 11:03

Pope John XXIII - 27/6/2015 10:41

toms - 27/6/2015 10:37

Old Red Fart - 27/6/2015 10:19

toms - 27/6/2015 09:46

Nothing to do with forest.

But I for one want to put a big shout out for the Greek government who have given their people the right to determine their future

Whatever the rights or wrongs of the situation....an actual act of proper democracy in the ever technocratic eu
Click to expand...

Yes toms it's democracy in action all right but doesn't change my opinion that they've been living too well for too long.



Most things have to be paid for in the long run !
Click to expand...

I agree ORF but for me its the right thing to do...hold a referendum... the will of the people is key...people should be the masters of their own destiny not politicians making bad deals
Click to expand...

And the entire Greek nation, half of whom don't recognise the need to pay their taxes, now have just 8 days to understand both the deal on the table and the potential consequences of default and exit from the Euro- and then make an informed choice.

Sorry, I'm with ORF- this is Southern Europeans having their cake and eating it. I don't want to see Greece crushed and I want them treated much more sensibly. But this country owes a lot of money and needs an incentive to change their culture economically
Click to expand...

I dont deny any of this...but the people must decide their fate. If they vote no the consequences could be worse at least in the short term. But that is a choice the people must take. If they vote in then they must take the consequences of that
Click to expand...

One of the unfortunate consequences of this is that all of a sudden we are getting a larger number of younger Greeks coming over here to settle and live purely because they are unable to get a job in Greece.
Our economy is far from perfect but it's so far in front of Greece that it's almost a joke. And a lot of these migrants are very well educated too. Not like their forbears who helped build the Snowy.

Times change, but perhaps not that much.

It doesn't change the situation though, it's all got to be paid for somehow.

 
forestfaninvegas - 27/6/2015 10:16

The Greeks are somewhat like Forest - do not pay their debts

Course the Greeks will vote against the measures - it is like a turkey voting for Christmas.

They owe YOU AND ME the money and they should be paying up.

It is a political stunt
Click to expand...

Oh really :30:
 
I have a lot of sympathy for the Greeks. Bringing a deal that involved raising taxes was unlikely to wash since they don't exactly have a good record of collecting it. An unwillingness to raise their early retirement age appears stubborn and prevents goodwill from nations whose retirement age is much higher.
 
in_the_top_one - 27/6/2015 11:48

I have a lot of sympathy for the Greeks. Bringing a deal that involved raising taxes was unlikely to wash since they don't exactly have a good record of collecting it. An unwillingness to raise their early retirement age appears stubborn and prevents goodwill from nations whose retirement age is much higher.
Click to expand...

Possibly quite a lot of us are sympathetic but it doesn't change the situation that they are living beyond their means and everyone else at the moment is paying for it.
It's a way of life that has to be changed.
And they don't like the thought.

Regardless of that though it has to be done.
Sooner the better.

 
Perhaps there were better ways for us to recoup the money than eurocratic, crippling austerity.
It's like breaking the kneecaps of a footballers who is skint and owes you money.
 
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