Gary Caldwell | Page 10 | Vital Football

Gary Caldwell

Danny_de_Zeeuw16 said:
Jones does know the club!!!!!!
Graeme jones was a legend here and was part of our premier league and fa cup winning coaching staff. How doesnt he know the club? This IS his club hes stated it before. Didn't work out at luton but as a former player who understands us he would have our full support and I think galvanise the club.

Gary bowyer ive endorsed myself too hes a good solid option at struggling clubs. So agree on that one.
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I didn't say Jones didn't know the club (although we're a very different beast to the club he left 7yrs ago).
The point I'm making (& Stormin Norman above makes it far more succinctly than me) is that "knowing the club" should be one of the last considerations, if at all, when appointing a manager - like SN says the ticket office girls knows the club well, so does the tea lady etc..
It shouldn't be how well they know the club, it should be whether they're a good enough manager & unfortunately in his brief spell as one so far Jones performed poorly and by all accounts alienated players and fans.

Whoever's appointed this time round will have my full support but I just want the person spec to be far more stretching for the applicants than knowing the club
 
In times of adversity to need someone who can rally everyone associated with the club
together and to be fair fm the re-start Cook did a great job of that.
Therefore it would makes sense (if ability and experience is equal) that an individual with a prior positive experience of and affinity for the club would be the best appointment.
So for me Jones would be an ideal appointment.
He could also probably still bang in a few goals in L1 🤣
 
Hampton said:
Therefore it would makes sense (if ability and experience is equal) that an individual with a prior positive experience of and affinity for the club would be the best appointment.
So for me Jones would like an ideal appointment.
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That's what I don't get. How on earth has Graeme Jones proven that he has the ability and experience as a manager to be what Latics need?

And if the new manager is good and gets the best from what players he has the fans and everyone else will rally round them regardless of whether they have any prior connection to the club.
Likewise if Jones proved utterly useless then the goodwill from him being a club legend would evaporate very quickly
 
Im sorry but I dont get the logic of give liam Richardson a chance but not graeme jones. Now for a start liam Richardson is a less experienced assistant than jones was. GJ has been involved in coaching at a far higher level, prem and fa cup success so has much better honours. He has also been involved in international football with Belgium.

I think its too early to judge GJ but saying jones is a bad choice cause he failed at luton is daft. Many managers or players excell at one club and fail at another. That was a tough job for anyone and he almost left taking a number 1 job too late in his career and got caught a bit off guard in the process. It was hard to replace nathan jones after he had been so successful there with that diamond system he likes to play, changing that up would have been problematic. Nathan jones on the other hand left for stoke and stank the place out, when he returns he fits. Thats because they gel together

My argument is that graeme jones and wigan will fit. I am confident in that. We will all rally behind a former legend and he's a great individual. Former players have been hugely successful. We need someone who can bring us together so this appointment isnt purely for sentimental reasons but to ensure the fans feel connected in some way to our new alien team.

If we are unable to sign players for quite a while we could do worse than an international standard coach who formally played for us, states were his club and calls this his dream job. If you cant get behind that then how the hell could you get behind anything? Good luck enjoying watching a keith hill side good god
 
If you're replying to me, I haven't said to give Leam Richardson a chance - he's clearly there holding the Fort till Cook gets a new job offer
You make a fair point about not writing Jones off completely just coz he failed at Luton and you're right, some managers naturally fit and prosper at some clubs but not others
However the argument kind of falls flat coz there's no logic to Jones being offered the position at Latics. It's purely emotion and sentiment. You state it isn't but then say its because you want the fans to feel connected to this alien club. What's that if it isn't sentiment? And I've felt connected to the club whether the manager was Ray Mathias, John Deehan, Owen Cole, Bobby or whoever. Its my club regardless of who's in the managerial hotseat. It's never an alien club whether it's full of Premier league superstars or Kenny Swain's team of odds & sods.
Also, if you can only rally behind a manager who has previous history at the club then it says more about you than anything about me - I'll rally behind whoever gets the post, whether it's Graeme Jones, Leam Richardson, Keith Hill or Mike Bassett

Back to Jones though, there's a world of difference between being a coach doing whatever the manager tells you to do & managing your own team, getting the backroom team right, getting the scouting system right, getting that relationship with the players right coz it's a different kettle of fish as a manager. At this moment in time Graeme Jones has not proved one bit that he has what it takes to make that jump.

Still, he says it's his dream job, so that's alright then. He has all the qualifications we need for the post.
To paraphrase yourself - Good God
 
How did he fail at Luton he as not got a relegation on his cv Was always going to be a struggle replacing his name sake wouldn’t be first choice but when you look at the journey men about he is as good
 
walgarthjohn said:
How did he fail at Luton he as not got a relegation on his cv Was always going to be a struggle replacing his name sake wouldn’t be first choice but when you look at the journey men about he is as good
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Ask Luton fans about him and they’ll tell you whether he failed or not
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
Ask Luton fans about him and they’ll tell you whether he failed or not
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Like I said was always going to be hard for him after back to back promotions Sure he took four point off us but like I said bringing players and managers back doesn’t work most of the time. Or I would love Boyce back. I would try and tempt the lad at Crewe. Done a good job
 
There will be no shortage of managers The only thing there will be a shortage of is owners. In a few mths there will be a lot of clubs in the same position as us
 
Mighty Bongsmon said:
If you're replying to me, I haven't said to give Leam Richardson a chance - he's clearly there holding the Fort till Cook gets a new job offer
You make a fair point about not writing Jones off completely just coz he failed at Luton and you're right, some managers naturally fit and prosper at some clubs but not others
However the argument kind of falls flat coz there's no logic to Jones being offered the position at Latics. It's purely emotion and sentiment. You state it isn't but then say its because you want the fans to feel connected to this alien club. What's that if it isn't sentiment? And I've felt connected to the club whether the manager was Ray Mathias, John Deehan, Owen Cole, Bobby or whoever. Its my club regardless of who's in the managerial hotseat. It's never an alien club whether it's full of Premier league superstars or Kenny Swain's team of odds & sods.
Also, if you can only rally behind a manager who has previous history at the club then it says more about you than anything about me - I'll rally behind whoever gets the post, whether it's Graeme Jones, Leam Richardson, Keith Hill or Mike Bassett

Back to Jones though, there's a world of difference between being a coach doing whatever the manager tells you to do & managing your own team, getting the backroom team right, getting the scouting system right, getting that relationship with the players right coz it's a different kettle of fish as a manager. At this moment in time Graeme Jones has not proved one bit that he has what it takes to make that jump.

Still, he says it's his dream job, so that's alright then. He has all the qualifications we need for the post.
To paraphrase yourself - Good God
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Hang on a minute if my response was aimed soley at you and only you then id quote you directly. Im talking to king de zeeuw. He said hes not against Richardson but doesnt want GJ so I thought it was strange and a bit inconsistent id like clarity on that. Less of the sarcasm theres no need. (last paragraph)

Back to the footy. I see what you mean your right. I am being sentimental I see that now. But theres nothing wrong with sentiment in football, its a powerful weapon. Look at what martinez achieved here, ok hed done well at the swans but he could quite easily have failed. Right now I think is a great time for a former player to come in and make a name for themselves. This is graeme jones' club.

I know that its different being a number 1 but not something that isnt a natural progression. Some of the best managers are former assistants. One small stint at luton does not define you. It was a tough job.

Do you not think as we would struggle to buy a squad that we could benefit from someone whos a highly successful coach? We would need to work with what we have. He IS a phenomenal coach at league 1 level.
 
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Danny_de_Zeeuw16 said:
Hang on a minute if my response was aimed soley at you and only you then id quote you directly. Im talking to king de zeeuw. He said hes not against Richardson but doesnt want GJ so I thought it was strange and a bit inconsistent id like clarity on that. Less of the sarcasm theres no need. (last paragraph)

Back to the footy. I see what you mean your right. I am being sentimental I see that now. But theres nothing wrong with sentiment in football, its a powerful weapon. Look at what martinez achieved here, ok hed done well at the swans but he could quite easily have failed. Right now I think is a great time for a former player to come in and make a name for themselves. This is graeme jones' club.

I know that its different being a number 1 but not something that isnt a natural progression. Some of the best managers are former assistants. One small stint at luton does not define you. It was a tough job.

Do you not think as we would struggle to buy a squad that we could benefit from someone whos a highly successful coach? We would need to work with what we have. He IS a phenomenal coach at league 1 level.
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Sorry for the sarcasm Danny - no offence intended

He may be great, he may fit and he may be just what we need. Time will tell I guess if we still have a club and if he's offered the post.
As you can tell, for me though there just has to be far more to who we take on than being a former player who knows the club. I'm genuinely not bothered whether they have any previous connection to us as long as they're the right person for the job (skill set wise)
 
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