GAMBLING – Has it gone too far?

Welshtel

Welshtel

Vital Football Hero
Before someone wittily says, “You bet! (I know you lot!), lets get to the question, “HAS GAMBLING got too big a hold on our nation?”

The amount of money that goes out of personal incomes (with VERY LITTLE return on it, NONE in most cases) and the amount that goes out of a family’s income when a parent spends good money that could benefit their children and their own lives for that matter on something that gives nothing in return or at best 1 in a million chance of a return, is absurd. If personal or family money spent on gambling were banked into a high yield account of some sort, not only would it accrue and not go out of people’s economies but it would actually grow for them in a definite and CERTAIN way.

Everywhere I look, I see Betfair, Coral, Bet365, Betway, Ladbrokes, Bwin, PaddyPower, SKYBet, BestSafe (Hah!) etc etc advertised on footballing pages and in the free press, the list is endless. Then there are the casinos, the bingo houses and of course the so called ‘respectable’ gambling, the lotteries where the money TAKEN from people ‘is properly used to support charities, the health service, to give people a chance in life to become multi millionaires’ (and that’s another subject again, how many people who win the lottery and become ‘REALLY RICH’ actually DO become really rich in their lives in terms of happiness? Oh I know so many say, “Just give me the chance, I’ll show you what happiness is”. The fact is so often, it doesn’t really do that much for people emotionally or morally come to that). I’ve heard so many say that their lives changed and not for the better, many went on to commit suicide or drinking themselves to death after losing their life’s structure. I’ve also heard that many just gave the money away to good causes and went on with their lives almost the same as before and whilst I thoroughly commend them for their kind deeds, I ask why did they spend their ‘hard earned’ in the first case?

To go back to the family situation, children need their family’s income for the things they need. I heard a while ago of a guy who went into the Post office, got his family support giro and then went next door to the newsagent, bought £20 + of lottery scratch cards, realised he hadn’t won anything, tore them up, threw the bits on the pavement (yes, really annoying litter) and walked off in a huff. He had just thrown away £20+ of taxpayers money intended for his family or someone else in need. Grrrr. That’s quite a common thing apparently. Something needs to be done to ensure that the money goes to the children or dependents it was intended for.

A large percentage of OUR ECONOMY as a nation is going into fat-cats pockets, never mind the large profit makers who set up an industry or commercial enterprise and provide jobs and services for people and the nation; with gambling the ‘punter’ gets no item in his hand as a result of his outlay of capital UNLESS he or she wins. something.

Just to add insult to injury, today I happened to hear in the media that someone has an unclaimed lottery ticket worth £33M+ and hasn’t turned up to collect it.

WHAT A shambles of an economic affair for people, families and the nation. ANYONE AGREE?
 
I like to bet. 10 -15 pound on the footie a week, plus on the NFL. If you can afford to do it, and are responsible I don't see the harm tbh.

Its the ones who get there pay checks or sign on money and sit at those roulette machines and when they lose it all, and ive seen someone lose over a hundred on them they kick and punch the machine in anger. When you start chasing your money back it leads to trouble.

I've had a few small bets come in this season, in the range of 100-250 off a couple of quid and the max I took was over a grand on that match result and both teams to score coupon.

I had a mate who took 800 from the hippodrome casino one night and i said to him book a holiday or buy something you want or put it towards your rent, he said he would then told me he went back to the casino 2 nights after and lost the lot. I was furious with him and it wasn't even my money lol.
 
In a word; 'Yes'.

I've often mused to my far better half that we must now be a nation of gambling addicts given the huge spend on TV/media and football sponsorship deals that gambling outfits now commit to.

They must be making an absolute fortune.

This is one of those area's where the Internet has a dark side; I know of friends who've gambled £10's of thousands away before getting a grip on themselves.

I don't want to be a hypocrite because I am a spread/index 'better' as well as the occasional sports better, but hard as I try when it comes to sports betting I tend to too often let my heart rule my head, where in spread financial betting/CFD's I'm exactly the opposite.

It seems to me that so much of the gaming promotion is aimed at precisely those who can't afford the losses - but as I've got no data to back that up it's probably a meaningless observation.
 
I was lining the "Bet it anit joke" Tel I confess. Yes in my opinion we have imposed a tax on the poor credulous and desperate. It has gone way too far. As for the FOB machines in the bookies they are betting crack an must be banned.
 
spurdon - 27/1/2016 16:51

I was lining the "Bet it anit joke" Tel I confess. Yes in my opinion we have imposed a tax on the poor credulous and desperate. It has gone way too far. As for the FOB machines in the bookies they are betting crack an must be banned.
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Yes they should be banned. I walk in on a sat morning to put some coupons on and the amount of people i see huddled round them playing roulette is a joke.

Ive seen it a parent has left the kid outside whilst he put a quick tenner in the machine. I thought what a prick.
 
Of course as in all things in life, personal responsibility also plays a part, but I'm told that gambling is an addiction and that it's more likely to occur if you're of a lower socio-economic status.

But I suspect that the evidence base is more anecdotal than science based - I only know this from a friend who works with the CAB and he tells me that around 50-60% of the lower income callers/request for help site a gambling addiction for the main or secondary reason they've got themselves into an unmanageable cycle of debt/borrowing with payday lenders and the like.

I don't know what the answer is, but in this area, I think we've got to start thinking about legislating again as it seems some people just can't control themselves.
 
This has been most encouraging for me to read something of what you guys have said, it's restored my faith in human nature again to some degree. Of course, I'm aware that you guys are the sensible ones, SO many out there are simply not and have got embroiled in the gambling thing of which there are so many outlets with so many varying forms, it's actually mind-boggling. If there is an area where I am ashamed of the free market it is THIS. So many are making big money off the backs of mainly the 'not well off' people but in any case they're making money off the poor thinkers of society who, just like walking past a food shop, get a whiff of something they want and walk in to try and get it, except they mostly come out without the goods minus their money.

'Tarrico' cited the 'harmless' bets, which those with sense indulge in and they can leave it alone, drop it and come back to it with will power in charge of their lives rather than something eating at them to spend their 'hard earned'. I totally applaud those but still feel that they too have lost some of their hard earned to someone's scheming and grabbing mind. I don't mean that disrespectfully to anyone except to those who run the schemes. Most of us really work hard to get something good out of life, to lose that is very frustrating. I remember when I was a kid of 18 or so (yes I CAN remember that far back thank you, I know some of you are thinking it) I was working with a guy who often visited the bookies every afternoon and loved the gee-gees. He barracked me to 'have a flutter', I was 'going to win a fortune' this particular day, he had an accumulator lined up for me and he knew his horses. So I sorted out a couple of bob from my limited pocket contents and sent him in to place the bets for me. The first two horses came in but the others didn't. My feeling was that I had been robbed, not by my mate, I consented to it, it was my fault but the system had 'robbed me' somehow.

Now before anyone sends me a couple of bob to tide me over, I got over it and got over it well, because I never gambled again after that and have a decent standard of living now probably because of it and other decent decisions I made.

But it's harrowing to see those who have been bitten. I just wish more would take the decision to build their lives, rather than diminish them.
 
..." If there is an area where I am ashamed of the free market it is THIS. So many are making big money off the backs of mainly the 'not well off' people but in any case they're making money off the poor thinkers of society who, just like walking past a food shop, get a whiff of something they want and walk in to try and get it, except they mostly come out without the goods minus their money. .."

I'd have to say, I feel broadly the same. I've had in various businesses 100's/1000's of employees, and both directly and indirectly through my personnel people, I've been staggered at the stories of the mess that some people get themselves into with gambling - I don't know what the answer is, except to say that since the national lottery started it seems to have acted as a 'gateway drug' to some and that added to the (to me) outrageous implications that some media ads have with their betting service I think the situation is just getting out of hand.
 
The Times have been conducting an investigation into the UK addiction to FOBT's (Fixed Odds Betting Terminals) or slot machines to you and me - and the outcomes and summaries are truly shocking.

Sadly, it seems that since Blair and Brown allowed all these easing or removal of controls the successive governments including this one are just as badly hooked on the ever increasing tax revenue they're raising from this huge increase in gaming...

But it get's worse, parts of the NHS are now prescribing hideously expensive anti-addition drugs to try and help the worse gambling addict.

"....Two months ago, the National Problem Gambling Clinic in London became the first to prescribe to gamblers naltrexone, a drug designed to help to combat alcohol and drug dependency. A course of treatment costs about £800 per patient per month, or nearly £10,000 a year.

Henrietta Bowden-Jones, from the clinic, said: “The medication is used to stop the most compulsive gamblers who are resistant to treatment. It helps stop craving.”

Last year GPs referred almost 1,000 of the country’s worst problem gamblers to the clinic for help...."

in response this is what the government had to say to the Times:

A spokesman for the Department for Culture, Media and Sport said: “We introduced stronger gambling controls last April. This includes putting an end to unsupervised stakes above £50 on FOBTs and giving more powers to local authorities to stop new betting shops opening up in their areas.”


All in all this looks like being another long term dung heap that's only just being uncovered, this government has to act and it has to act decisively to roll-back the deregulation...but I suspect it won't.
 
We need a national debate on Gambling and it needs to put the case that very few become rich for the outlay and many of those who hit the jackpot are not happier because of it.

The cost of these new drugs to control the addiction is prohibitive and a health service should not have to bear the burden of it. Sometimes I think we've gone too soft on people. People should sometimes have to face up to their responsibility. If they've indulged themselves in expensive pastimes, they should be 'encouraged' by some fair means or other to give it up. Maybe someone can suggest a method, bear in mind I did say, by some fair means.
 
Welshtel - 17/2/2016 19:14

We need a national debate on Gambling and it needs to put the case that very few become rich for the outlay and many of those who hit the jackpot are not happier because of it.

The cost of these new drugs to control the addiction is prohibitive and a health service should not have to bear the burden of it. Sometimes I think we've gone too soft on people. People should sometimes have to face up to their responsibility. If they've indulged themselves in expensive pastimes, they should be 'encouraged' by some fair means or other to give it up. Maybe someone can suggest a method, bear in mind I did say, by some fair means.
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I can't think of any fair means.

Perhaps it's time to re-introduce debtors prison - now that might make a good few start thinking about what they spend/borrow and don't save for... :10:
 
There's no problem if it's done in moderation, just like most things in life. Some people are just weak and if they didn't have an addiction to gambling they would find something else to destroy their life! I had a roulette problem when I was a teenager and lost £1300 on it one day when I was 18...felt so sick that I've never played them machines since! Some people learn the hard way but unfortunately some don't and there's just literally no helping them ones!
 
I'm not one for betting, although I have been to Vegas a few times and can see how it's easy to get caught up in it. It is addictive. A few wins on the slot machines, and it's hard to pull yourself away and take your winnings. It's quite sad when you go down to Fremont Street and some of the older hotels, and see all the retired people just sitting at the slot machines all day, every day as they can't help themselves.
 
It would certainly be good to raise the level of discussion about gambling, I'm talking nationally not just on Vital Spurs. It would be good to get a discussion on all Vital Forums.

With most people scratching for funds these days and so much being spent on the lottery in all its forms etc, with little chance of them scooping any winnings, its sad to see families going without in basic terms because parents are spending the family income trying to hit the elusive jackpot.

It would just be good to see people and families getting real rewards for what they spend instead of fragile promises.
 
Have to say that like many Conservative MP's I'm extremely p*ssed off that Osborne is so far refusing to act, it's now increasing clear that a significant number of people just can't help themselves, so the government has to step in :

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/osborne-puts-tax-before-gambling-victims-fg2j9xk5f


"...George Osborne has been accused of blocking a review into betting machines known as “the crack cocaine of gambling” because of the tax revenue they generate.

The chancellor is facing growing opposition from Tory MPs over the failure to act against fixed-odds betting terminals (FOBTs), which raised £425 million for the Treasury last year...."

 
Nobody bends your arm and makes you bet- it's individual choice. But saying that, there is also a yes to this question and that applies to the excessive advertising of gambling on TV, radio and in print. That yank plating war criminal Tony Blair will have much more to answer for as the British teens in the 21st century fall chronically addicted to the roulette wheel.
 
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