Freedom of Speech

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

If you don't mind me asking, what was the incident you were on the receiving end of racism?

To be fair to Anitfa, I was more talking about the online social justice warriors (SJWs as they're known) who were defending her on Twitter. I was trying to point out the hypocrisy and got shut down as a white supremacist for just trying to make a point. They are insane.

And yeah, that guy is a nutjob who should be banned and thrown in prison. But on the other hand, someone who advocates the extermination of white people not only keeps her job at the New York Times but is celebrated by these SJWs, mostly who are of course white and cling to their white guilt like it's a badge of honour.

I know this may seem like it's gone off topic a bit, but it's related and relevant in my opinion.

When I was at Uni me and my girlfriend used to look after a Nigerian boy a couple of times a week. Many of the black community didn't like it. The Nigerians were OK, but the British blacks hated it. It culminated in us trying to take him to an evening of African music, and being excluded. It went all the way to the Vice Chancellor. It got very nasty.

And yes, it works both ways. If they can't see that then they are at the extreme ends, just as BB suggests. He's correct in that the numbers probably are very small, although I will quantify that by saying that since 9/11 there have been more terrorist attacks and deaths from White Supremacists than any other group. A lot more.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

I think you probably spend too much time on social media, SJH. The issues you are talking about are all American issues. They dominate social media and are designed to polarise.

When one SJW refuses to talk about Asian privilege, it makes it seem that they are a unified group who all have the same opinion. When one Alt Right does some Alt Right nonsense, it makes it seem that they are all like that.

The internet also provides this weird lens which makes it seem that everyone is either a SJW or Alt Right, take Jordan Peterson for example.

When you look at the rallies they have (both sides) maybe a few hundred people show up at most. There are 350m in America and two dozen of them showed up for the Alt Right rally in Charlottesville.

The Alt Right is really not an issue in a very conservative country but the media and social media in particular makes it look like half of the country are neo-Nazis.

The statistics seem to vary wildly but one estimate is that 0.5% of Americans identify as transgender. They are a non-entity socially but if you spend a lot of time on social media, you will be misinformed that transgender issues are the biggest social issue in the USA at the moment.

I deleted my Facebook and Instagram apps the other day. I never got into Twitter. I would guess that we are about to see the implosion of social media in its current form pending something new in that sphere.

lol BB, that's certainly one problem. I don't bother much with Facebook or the rest anymore, but I should give Twitter a break.

You're right to an extent, in reality these are more American and Canadian issues, but because of social media (and virtue signalling mainstream media) they're reaching a lot further.

You just have to look at the recent case in Ireland of the trial of 4 rugby players for rape for one example. The SJW culture came out strong for that one. All 4 found innocent, and yet there was protests in the streets of Dublin and Belfast the next day. We live in a "rape culture". A "culture of misogyny". Absolute horseshit. SJW mentality is very closely connected to neo-feminism or 3rd wave feminism which is completely detached from reality.

Social media does completely magnify a lot of this stuff, you're right. But when people I know personally are starting to talk like these loons, it's gets worrying.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

And yes, it works both ways. If they can't see that then they are at the extreme ends, just as BB suggests.

Twitter have just verified Sarah Jeong's account. Not only is she not banned or fired from her job, she gets to have a little blue tick beside her name.

I find that unacceptable. Racism is racism, no matter what pathetic excuses she made and no matter the colour of her skin or ethnicity. It's almost like she's getting away with it simply because she isn't white.

Didn't take long for Roseanne Barrs career and reputation to be destroyed because of a stupid remark.

 

[Trekker]

David has been subject to racism more than once. One time was at a recruitment company he worked for after he came back from cricket in Australia, he had a deep tan and his colleague called him a “****” and went on about how much he hated “his type”. He was somewhat shocked to say the least.
The company involved closed ranks as David was brand new and refused to do anything about it.

 

[BodyButter]

lol BB, that's certainly one problem. I don't bother much with Facebook or the rest anymore, but I should give Twitter a break.

You're right to an extent, in reality these are more American and Canadian issues, but because of social media (and virtue signalling mainstream media) they're reaching a lot further.

You just have to look at the recent case in Ireland of the trial of 4 rugby players for rape for one example. The SJW culture came out strong for that one. All 4 found innocent, and yet there was protests in the streets of Dublin and Belfast the next day. We live in a "rape culture". A "culture of misogyny". Absolute horseshit. SJW mentality is very closely connected to neo-feminism or 3rd wave feminism which is completely detached from reality.

Social media does completely magnify a lot of this stuff, you're right. But when people I know personally are starting to talk like these loons, it's gets worrying.

Again, the social media amplification of poorly thought through opinions makes them seem equally as valid as experts.

I don't really understand what 3rd wave feminists want. Nobody would dispute that women should have equal opportunities or equal pay but then they already have those. Anyone arguing that women are paid less than men just don't understand the issue properly.

I think you are a couple of years younger than me so maybe your experience is different from mine. I reached adulthood before the internet hit in a big way. It was just becoming an everyday thing as I graduated. I remember having lots of awkward conversations with strangers in pubs where they told me their half baked theories and I told them I agreed fully but had to leave. Everyone in the pub knew they were not to be taken seriously and you could tell from one look that they weren't the full shilling. Their children or grandchildren are now online spouting half baked nonsense but we feel that we have to respect their opinions.

 

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

Again, the social media amplification of poorly thought through opinions makes them seem equally as valid as experts.

I don't really understand what 3rd wave feminists want. Nobody would dispute that women should have equal opportunities or equal pay but then they already have those. Anyone arguing that women are paid less than men just don't understand the issue properly.

I think you are a couple of years younger than me so maybe your experience is different from mine. I reached adulthood before the internet hit in a big way. It was just becoming an everyday thing as I graduated. I remember having lots of awkward conversations with strangers in pubs where they told me their half baked theories and I told them I agreed fully but had to leave. Everyone in the pub knew they were not to be taken seriously and you could tell from one look that they weren't the full shilling. Their children or grandchildren are now online spouting half baked nonsense but we feel that we have to respect their opinions.

There is still a paygap between women and men. I'm not quite sure where you were going with this?

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

Again, the social media amplification of poorly thought through opinions makes them seem equally as valid as experts.

I don't really understand what 3rd wave feminists want. Nobody would dispute that women should have equal opportunities or equal pay but then they already have those. Anyone arguing that women are paid less than men just don't understand the issue properly.

I think you are a couple of years younger than me so maybe your experience is different from mine. I reached adulthood before the internet hit in a big way. It was just becoming an everyday thing as I graduated. I remember having lots of awkward conversations with strangers in pubs where they told me their half baked theories and I told them I agreed fully but had to leave. Everyone in the pub knew they were not to be taken seriously and you could tell from one look that they weren't the full shilling. Their children or grandchildren are now online spouting half baked nonsense but we feel that we have to respect their opinions.

I'm just gone 35 so I do remember the good old days of pre-social media and dial-up internet lol.

I've just become interested in this phenomenon over the last couple of years, wondering why so many people are so easily offended nowadays, and why people in the spotlight are constantly being witch-hunted over things they say. It's overt political correctness that's infesting everything and it's getting annoying. And the irritating mob won't let up. Criticizing garbage like the female Ghostbusters movie and the Ocean's 8 movie is "sexism". Mindy Kaling said the bad reviews of Ocean's 8 were because there's too many male movie critics. Do me a fucking favour.

I think what the SJWs and 3rd wave feminists want is some kind of future Utopian society. Except it'll be more like the one in Demolition Man and you and me will be in the sewers eating rat burgers with Denis Leary.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

There is still a paygap between women and men. I'm not quite sure where you were going with this?

There is a paygap, but there's a multitude of different reasons for it which the feminists never bring up or simply don't understand.

 

[BodyButter]

There is still a paygap between women and men. I'm not quite sure where you were going with this?

Only if you count en mass.

You are always a guy with well researched opinions so I wouldn't be so condescending as to explain the reality of the situation to you.

The one that I always use on the rare occasions when I come across a 3rd wave feminist who has only read the headlines and not the articles is; why are female Uber drivers paid 7% less in the US when the platform pays everyone the exact same rates?

 

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

It's not quite that simple, though, BB. Women drive slower, and in areas that are less lucrative. The question is, why? Are they afraid to drive in other areas? Is it an educational issue?

In a wider picture, why are women not going for the higher paid positions? Who's told them they aren't good enough to get them?

It is still an issue.

 

[BodyButter]

It's not quite that simple, though, BB. Women drive slower, and in areas that are less lucrative. The question is, why? Are they afraid to drive in other areas? Is it an educational issue?

In a wider picture, why are women not going for the higher paid positions? Who's told them they aren't good enough to get them?

It is still an issue.

Why would women drive in areas which are less lucrative? That would be stupid.

 

[The Fear]

Letting women drive in the first place was a bit stupid really.

What?

Nothing.

I didn't say nothing.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

I
In a wider picture, why are women not going for the higher paid positions? Who's told them they aren't good enough to get them?

It is still an issue.

Nobody says they're not good enough. In general women don't tend to go for the the types of jobs that have high paying positions anyway and veer towards teaching and nursing.

Some women do go for high paid positions and get right to the top. It takes a certain type of personality to want to reach the upper echelons of a corporation or big business. Just because there is equality of opportunity doesn't mean men are going to lie down and let someone take their job because they are a women. It's dog eat dog.

Feminists expect things to be handed to them on a plate. I though they wanted equality, not special treatment?

If businesses could pay women less for doing the same job then wouldn't all businesses hire women exclusively? Wouldn't it save them a shitload of money?

 

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

Again, it has to be asked why? What makes women go for different jobs? They are fully capable of doing most of them as well as men.

It's all about the messages they get from society. They are expected to become Nurses and secretaries. They are told by so much that they are second class citizens.

And now you have these Proud Boys who want them to go back to being housewives. It's laughable, except it's 2018!!!

 

[BodyButter]

Again, it has to be asked why? What makes women go for different jobs? They are fully capable of doing most of them as well as men.

It's all about the messages they get from society. They are expected to become Nurses and secretaries. They are told by so much that they are second class citizens.

And now you have these Proud Boys who want them to go back to being housewives. It's laughable, except it's 2018!!!

It's not about the messages they get from society. Generally speaking, women are more interested in people and men are more interested in stuff so men go for engineering etc and women go into teaching etc.

In the Nordic countries where the societies are the most equal in the world, the gender differences in occupations are bigger than in other less equal European countries.

I find it strange that you are so far behind the curve on the research on this topic.

 

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

I never thought of you being like that BB. Societies like the Mosuo and Minangkabau have different rules show that to be wrong. Given the same stimulus, women can do the same as men. Every subliminal message they get here makes that impossible.

 

[Stephen Jay Hawkings]

"Countries with greater gender equality see a smaller proportion of women taking degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM), a new study has found. "

http://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/

 

[Bikini Inspector]

Freedom of speech is a myth. The vague notion of it comes form the 1st amendment in the states which obviously doesn't apply here and has caveats over there. As far as Britain is concerned we have no written Constitution and bill of rights. Therefore we are a nation of laws and legalisation and our speech is literally governed by those laws and rules.

So basically, "free speech" never existed.

 

[BodyButter]

I never thought of you being like that BB. Societies like the Mosuo and Minangkabau have different rules show that to be wrong. Given the same stimulus, women can do the same as men. Every subliminal message they get here makes that impossible.

I haven't seen any research that supports the idea that the gender pay gap is caused by women being subjected to subliminal messages. It seems like a fantastical idea designed to support an effort to create an equality of outcome.

All of the data points to gender preferences and childbirth as the major factors in the gender pay gap.

 

[HeathfieldRoad1874]

I don't know what biased research you've been reading, but it isn't right.

A study by the sociologists Asaf Levanon, Paula England, and Paul Allison, which examined census data from 1950 to 2000, found that, when women enter an occupation in large numbers, that job begins to pay less.

The Workplace Gender Equality Agency study showed was that sex discrimination continues to be the single largest factor contributing to the gender pay gap, increasing from 35% in 2007 to 38% in 2014.

And if anyone seriously thinks that young girls seeing women do jobs that we consider female, then they will also choose those same roles, then they are missing the point completely. We are all a product of influences around us.