Forgiveness or Punishment

Calvin Plummer

Calvin Plummer

Vital Football Legend
The blunts have been in the news recently after it transpired they've held talks with Ched Evans. If Forest had a player who'd been convicted of a relatively serious crime would you be prepared to see him back here? Does it make a difference to the type of crime he was convicted of? Would you be more forgiving if it as a quality player over a bit part player?


Personally while I understand the argument about being a role model and certain crimes are indeed stomach churning as a point of principal I do believe that ex-prisoners deserve the chance a rehabilitation and reintegrating back into society. I'm glad it isn't Forest but don't we all deserve a second chance?
 
I think its amazing what footie fans will forgive because a player plays for them. Certain crimes dont deserve a second chance and the "lets reintegrate them back into society brigade" are part of the problem. We need to make it socially abhorrent for people to kill, child abuse, rape. If people think there might be a second chance there are some nutters who will actually calculate whether committing the crime is worth it
 
I agree ex-cons deserve the right to a life after their sentence & to prove rehabilitation has worked, Evans himself can't be put into that bracket though as he is still protesting his innocence.

For me, the ability is irrelevant, whether it be Eugene Dadi or Christiano Ronaldo if they commit a crime like Evans or Hughes I would refuse to pay any portion of their wages.

If Forest signed Evans, I wouldn't walk through the City Ground turnstiles again until he'd left & would demand a pro rata refund on my season ticket.

Yes he deserves the right to earn a living, but I decide whether he earns that living from my pocket or not.
 
Been thinking about this… I really wouldn’t want a convicted rapist playing for Forest – for every attempt we’ve made over the past 15 years to dismantle our own legacy, I still think there’s something to be said for preserving the soul and spirit of the club. We might never hit the heights again, but there’s nothing wrong with aspiring to the character and personality that the club had in its best moments (even if it involved some dodgy types on occasion). There’s still something to be said for making friends in football.

From a business point of view, I can understand why Sheffield United probably will re-employ him – he’s guaranteed goals at that level, and with Nigel in charge and a fourth year in League 1, they’re not going anywhere fast otherwise. What’s more disturbing is the attitude of their fans – they were chanting about the girl the minute Evans was sent down, and a good number of them have been arguing recently about the different ‘types’ of rape, and how when you think about it, it actually wasn’t that bad what he done after all.

Think the dissenters there are a vocal minority, and most of them will jump on board once the goals start coming. I know a couple of Notts fans who said when they signed Hughes that they were handing their STs in – they didn’t, and were singing his name from the rooftops within weeks. The only reason they’d have hung onto their convictions is if he hadn’t done the business for them.

Football fans always talk about standards and spirit and the heart and soul of a club, but they’re the first to turn cheek when employing a convicted criminal / wiping off debts by leaving creditors in the lurch actually works in their favour. Take Leicester - they positively thrive on their reputation as scumbags, and the fact they 'got away with it' a couple of times. Notts fans rallied behind Hughes like no other player in the past decade.
 
And in a position such as a footballer, who can be role models for many youngsters, a new life outside football is reasonable and they should be thankful for that.
 
CP, I too was going to post on this subject, but wondered if it would encourage some of the more volatile posters on here to get into a rant. However, I'm glad you've raised the subject as it needs airing.
I regard myself as a very liberal person and feel that offenders once having served their time should be taken back into society. However, this is a very complex situation. He was a relatively high profile sportsman and is therefore a role model whether you, I or indeed he thinks otherwise. I just don't see how he can come back into a sport that is trying to broaden its appeal across age groups and genders. There is the added problem that he has shown no remorse for his crime. Now I accept that he is still protesting his innocence so to show remorse would imply his guilt, which he is denying. I applaud his honesty when many others would have discarded their principles just to make life easier. However he was found guilty by his peers in a properly conducted trial. Some may argue the toss, but just because the female is incapable of giving consent because she is drunk does not give a man the right to have sex with her. It is still non-consensual intercourse and therefore by definition rape.
His girlfriend has been and is still standing by him so I wish him well in getting back into society, but not on a football field I'm afraid. One only has to see and hear the abuse that Marlon King used to get, and he was never found guilty, to realise that his life would be hell as a footballer.
As I have said, his slate should now be wiped clean, but I'm afraid that in such a visible profession it will never be so by the audience.
 
If Lee Hughes can murder someone and play again then Ched Evans should play again. He's a wa**er but he's going back to the right manager & right club for that.

If it was Forest then no I wouldn't want him back I'd feel bad every time he got applause or whatever.

He hasn't even admitted he was guilty either.
 
if you read the case and what went on i have no idea how he was convicted, especially when clayton mcdonald was acquitted. IMO Evans was well and truly stitched up.
 
payola1980 - 17/10/2014 09:57

if you read the case and what went on i have no idea how he was convicted, especially when clayton mcdonald was acquitted. IMO Evans was well and truly stitched up.
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Agreed and also agree with Woany read the case, he behaved like a tw*t and took advantage of a silly drunk Girl at worst

Give him a chance
 
bumberclot - 17/10/2014 10:21

lets put it this way - would you want marlon king back in the garibaldi?
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That's not really relevant though - he was crap for us.

More to the point, if you thought Evans would score 20 goals for us, would you want him to do so?

I say no, but I understand why people would say he's done his time and he's entitled to earn a living. I'd more comfortable with him playing if he'd shown some regret or remorse but, from what I gather, he's still vehemently denying that he did anything wrong.
 
When you say "took advantage of a silly drunk Girl at worst" do you mean 'had sex with a girl knowing very well she was in no position to consent, at worst'

cos that's not 'ok'
 
MrsBrownsBoys - 17/10/2014 10:28

payola1980 - 17/10/2014 09:57

if you read the case and what went on i have no idea how he was convicted, especially when clayton mcdonald was acquitted. IMO Evans was well and truly stitched up.
Click to expand...

Agreed and also agree with Woany read the case, he behaved like a tw*t and took advantage of a silly drunk Girl at worst

Give him a chance
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if they had convicted donaldson too then fair enough, but to let him off and convict evans was a joke. They are either both guilty or both innocent.
 
Calvin Plummer - 17/10/2014 09:30
Personally while I understand the argument about being a role model and certain crimes are indeed stomach churning as a point of principal I do believe that ex-prisoners deserve the chance a rehabilitation and reintegrating back into society. I'm glad it isn't Forest but don't we all deserve a second chance?
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I'm wholly in favour of the rehabilitating nature of prison but there are many careers for which a rape conviction would be a bar to re-entry. Professional football should be one of them.

It should be the Football League taking a lead on this, barring his registration. It shouldn't be the role of an individual chairman or manager to decide. Indeed, the owner of Blackpool is also a convicted rapist, for which again, the League bears responsibility.


 
payola1980 - 17/10/2014 11:39

MrsBrownsBoys - 17/10/2014 10:28

payola1980 - 17/10/2014 09:57

if you read the case and what went on i have no idea how he was convicted, especially when clayton mcdonald was acquitted. IMO Evans was well and truly stitched up.
Click to expand...

Agreed and also agree with Woany read the case, he behaved like a tw*t and took advantage of a silly drunk Girl at worst

Give him a chance
Click to expand...

if they had convicted donaldson too then fair enough, but to let him off and convict evans was a joke. They are either both guilty or both innocent.
Click to expand...

They acquitted McDonald of rape because of the circumstances in which they met and the fact he notified the porter of the girls state when he left. The convicted Evan because he wanted sloppy seconds and fooked off via the emergency exit.

Now if McDonald was guilty why would he speak to the porter when leaving the front entrance. I would not class that as the behavior of a guilty person. Fooking of via an emergency exit on the other hand...........

In certain walks of life Evans would not stand a chance of getting certain jobs. Football is very high profile and should take steps to barring certain convicts from plying their trade in the game.
 
the stick evans is going to take will be horrendous

put it this way...if it was your daughter would you want evans playing again. thats how i look at it
 
I'm not to familar with the case but it appears McDonald was given the benifit of doubt, however Evans was convicted on the basis the girl was in no fit state to consent.

Basically she was to drunk.

However, having seen the footage she doesn't appear incapable drunk when arriving at the Premier Inn.

http://www.chedevans.com/judge-for-yourself

As is noted below the clip:

If you note the shoes they are extremely high wedges which the complainant had borrowed for the evening. Somebody incapably drunk would find it incredibly difficult to walk in them, never mind having the cognitive ability of remembering the pizza.

Ten 10 mins later Evans arrives.

In 10 mins she become incapable drunk?



http://www.chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts



 
Bremen Tree - 17/10/2014 10:59

payola1980 - 17/10/2014 11:39

MrsBrownsBoys - 17/10/2014 10:28

payola1980 - 17/10/2014 09:57

if you read the case and what went on i have no idea how he was convicted, especially when clayton mcdonald was acquitted. IMO Evans was well and truly stitched up.
Click to expand...

Agreed and also agree with Woany read the case, he behaved like a tw*t and took advantage of a silly drunk Girl at worst

Give him a chance
Click to expand...

if they had convicted donaldson too then fair enough, but to let him off and convict evans was a joke. They are either both guilty or both innocent.
Click to expand...

They acquitted McDonald of rape because of the circumstances in which they met and the fact he notified the porter of the girls state when he left. The convicted Evan because he wanted sloppy seconds and fooked off via the emergency exit.

Now if McDonald was guilty why would he speak to the porter when leaving the front entrance. I would not class that as the behavior of a guilty person. Fooking of via an emergency exit on the other hand...........

In certain walks of life Evans would not stand a chance of getting certain jobs. Football is very high profile and should take steps to barring certain convicts from plying their trade in the game.
Click to expand...


the girl was pissed out of her skull. She was shagging donaldson WHILST evans was in the room. He finished then evans jumped in. thats what happened. IMO they both should have been convicted or aquitted. She was just as drunk and incapable as she was with donaldson or evans.
 
It was only a matter of time before someone posted a link to his website. Evans is in the fortunate position of having Karl Massey, a millionaire businessman, spearheading his appeal and funding his website. That backing does not make the conviction any less sound.

He was found guilty by a jury who heard the full evidence of the case. It's a crime with astonishingly low rates of conviction.



 
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