orbitalforest
Vital Football Legend
I hope they scrap it , i fucking hate it , but i bet they won't.
Forest vs PGMOL
- Thread starter LynxRed
- Start date
seasider red
Vital 1st Team Regular
which is fair enough isn't it, we did it but in a different way
TMFwanstead
Vital Reserves Team
Var is crap and is ruining the enjoyment of the game. I’d scrap it tomorrow without a second thought. Why are we obsessed with putting IT into virtually every aspect of life.
chandos9
Vital 1st Team Regular
Why don't Forest produce merch with that on it, like you could get pictures of Brice Samba' s waterbottle with the penalty instructions?
It is not just VAR. Stonewall penalty. Agree. Why did the ref miss it? Blatant and obvious. Primary fault the ref. Then this compounded by VAR failing to do its job. Obvious error. Send ref to screen to give him a chance to correct his error. They double down. Nothing ‘ere. They are not protecting their mates but setting them up to ridicule. PMGOL has a big job on here. They need to improve the General standard of referees, get refs and VAR working together not separately. VAR rules and process need to change. Communication between ref, VAR and fans need to change. A discussion and decision process needs to be adapted. The independent panel needs to become honest and hold refs up to account. They have to improve. Finally honesty not cover up needs to be the mantra. There will always be contentious decisions but these are stonewall and obvious. Man Utd still classified as a top six side then.
Barry Goldie
Vital Squad Member
There just needs to be clear and open accountability for Refs just like there is for players, clubs, managers even supporters.
If they screw up for them it's a case of "human error they made a mistake move on" as the reaction to the absolute worst howlers with most just brushed under the carpet.
There needs to be some open review and grading system of performance for refs with those guilty of the worst performance to be reprimanded. PGMOL would say that is over kill but their performance should be micromanaged until there is public confidence in the system.
seasider red
Vital 1st Team Regular
There definitely has the be some sort of accountability for referees & VAR officials on field refs can give or not give a penalty for example based on all sorts of different things, angle of viewing, view obscured which can all be put under the umbrella of human error which is acceptable refs get one look & hopefully make an honest decision based on what they see. VAR officials are a completely different thing they have no excuses they can look for plenty of time from as many angles as they like but they still get it wrong & this is where the accountability has to kick in, officials in that position cannot be allowed to go on making mistake after mistake. I’ve always thought being a VAR official should be a specialist job not just whoever happens to be available.
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This season, as far as Forest are concerned VAR is not the primary problem. Yes some rules need to change and communication with fans needs, to improve but Forest rarely got decisions over ruled by VAR. The primary problem was decisions by refs. They were nowhere near up to standard. They missed things and saw things that were not there. They need to be sponsored by spec savers and get retrained.
In desperately trying to look after mates VAR failed to correct the obvious error. VAR has to become a second set of eyes for ref, as first set is failing. There has to be a discussion between VAR and ref as to what they see and how they adjudicate. Discussion will bring consistency. It is not about correcting ref decision it is about jointly coming to correct decision. They must learn from other sports.
Forest complaint via text, wolves requesting vote on VAR, Gordon questioning purpose of VAR, all point to the same thing. Dissatisfaction of product. Wonder if Gordon, like Williams will be asked for statement?
In desperately trying to look after mates VAR failed to correct the obvious error. VAR has to become a second set of eyes for ref, as first set is failing. There has to be a discussion between VAR and ref as to what they see and how they adjudicate. Discussion will bring consistency. It is not about correcting ref decision it is about jointly coming to correct decision. They must learn from other sports.
Forest complaint via text, wolves requesting vote on VAR, Gordon questioning purpose of VAR, all point to the same thing. Dissatisfaction of product. Wonder if Gordon, like Williams will be asked for statement?
Pope John XXIII
Vital Football Legend
Both the ref and VAR are showing cowardice, confirmation bias and are looking after their mates.
The refs are afraid to take a decision in case it's wrong. I don't think fans have ever cared if a ref has got it wrong and VAR corrects it, so long as right decision is made. But the refs must care, as they are avoiding making decisions.
I think there is then a confirmation bias in the VAR booth. The ref didn't give it, so he's probably right. Let's look for reasons why he was right in the first place. You can see this clearly in the gaslighting audio of Attwell at Everton.
And I think they are also letting personal relationships get in the way; they don't want to drag their mate to the screen or overrule him. Presumably he gets a mark against on the report if VAR overrules, which I guess he is more likely to get away with it they don't.
It hasn't helped that the thresholds for various things have changed over the season. Early season you had Rashford's abomination of a penalty, mid season you had Isaks. And then, second half of the season when we were getting more seriously fouled in the box, suddenly the threshold has gone up
Agree with most if not all of above, as would most U.K. fans of all persuasions. Even top 6. Webb really does have to make some sweeping changes. All are at fault. It is not individuals it is the way system is being applied. And standards. Let’s hear it from Captain Webb.
seasider red
Vital 1st Team Regular
Agreed Pope. The problem is I don't recall any announcement being made to inform people of the change, which leaves people not understanding what's going on. I also think it is these thresholds that part of the problem. I don't recall being told that different "thresholds" apply in the penalty area to the rest of the pitch either,& I really don't understand why, a foul is a foul irrespective of where it is on the pitch & the only reason to grade their seriousness is for the issue of cards
sherwood
Vital Reserves Team
That threshold seemed to have taken a dive again looking at that recent Arsenal penalty, pun intended.
"Consistency is all I ask"
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
I don't know how many interviews you've read/heard with ex-referees, but they can be quite enlightening.
The whole reffing scene is extremely political. Everyone's trying to get ahead, there's cliques, hated refs, groups of friends who will always stick up for each other etc.
When Mike Dean came out and said that he protected his friend at the expense of making a correct decision, it completely destroyed any integrity in VARing (much, much more than anything Forest could say). The politics of refereeing has now wormed its way on to the pitch, and they just can't allow it to continue any more.
The VAR team should be an ex striker, and ex defender, an ex manager and referee who is ONLY there to provide advice on the rules of the game and doesn't get involved in the actual decision making.
If the striker, the defender and manager can't agree that a decision is wrong, you leave the ref's decision on the pitch.
Either that or you train several 'rules experts' who have nothing to do with the actual refs and do nothing but work at Stockley Park.
They'll never get rid of VAR now. Too much is invested in it.
If
If 14 vote to scrap it, then it gets scraped
weejockmcplop
Vital Champions League
The EPL can overrule the vote.
LynxRed
Vital 1st Team Regular
I'd be happy to keep VAR if I had any faith in the people running it to make things better. But therein lies the problem.
They don't seem to know their arse from their elbow, much less how to improve VAR and manage to reach correct decisions. I'm fine with the principle of it, but this "behind closed doors" approach with no comms in the stadium and no accountability is an abomination.
100% they should be mic'd up, the discussion between VAR and ref played out on the stadium tannoy, the images they are seeing displayed on the big screens in the ground. I just hate it in the current format.
If nothing else, this is Wolves adding their voice to Forest to express serious dissatisfaction with the current situation. That can only be a good thing, and it gives a clear invite to other clubs to do so too.
They don't seem to know their arse from their elbow, much less how to improve VAR and manage to reach correct decisions. I'm fine with the principle of it, but this "behind closed doors" approach with no comms in the stadium and no accountability is an abomination.
100% they should be mic'd up, the discussion between VAR and ref played out on the stadium tannoy, the images they are seeing displayed on the big screens in the ground. I just hate it in the current format.
If nothing else, this is Wolves adding their voice to Forest to express serious dissatisfaction with the current situation. That can only be a good thing, and it gives a clear invite to other clubs to do so too.
