Forest V Stoke Match Thread - Sponsored by Birdseye Breaded Cod fisHcakes | Page 4 | Vital Football

Forest V Stoke Match Thread - Sponsored by Birdseye Breaded Cod fisHcakes

Pope John XXIII said:
That can be a very misleading statistic.

How are chances created calculated?

If Carvalho shoots from distance and it goes miles over, does that count?

If lolly shoots on the edge of the area and it's blocked, does that count?

If a good cross comes in but player at the far post misses it, does that count or does he need to connect and miss the goal to count statistically?

If Dias slots through a superb through ball to Grabban but an aware defender just manages to cut it out, does that count?

If Cash recieves the ball in a great position in the box but just slips over, does that count?

If Grabban recieves in the same position but instead of taking it towards goal, inexplicably decides to travel wide, does that count?

I suspect none of the above count on your stats as chances created, yet in my view they are very reflective of our attacking play this season. We get into a lot of threatening positions and half chances but struggle with bad decision making (and sometimes bad luck) in taking them all the way
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We're 18th for both shots on target per game and shots per game on target or not. Also a large % were long range efforts by us - well above the average.

Interestingly though we sit 9th for goals scored, which suggests that we're relatively clinical when we do actually get good opportunities.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
We're 18th for both shots on target per game and shots per game on target or not. Also a large % were long range efforts by us - well above the average.

Interestingly though we sit 9th for goals scored, which suggests that we're relatively clinical when we do actually get good opportunities.
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That completely ignores the points I was making, but thanks for that.

Do you opta stats say anything about blocked or intercepted shots, as anecdotally we seem to have a lot of those
 
Pope John XXIII said:
That completely ignores the points I was making, but thanks for that.

Do you opta stats say anything about blocked or intercepted shots, as anecdotally we seem to have a lot of those
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It was a shit point. You feel like we've had more shots blocked than other teams but you've no evidence whatsoever and a blocked or 'intercepted' shot is included in shots off target anyway.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
It was a shit point. You feel like we've had more shots blocked than other teams but you've no evidence whatsoever and a blocked or 'intercepted' shot is included in shots off target anyway.
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Those with more objectivity might notice that I included a lot more scenarios than just blocks or interceptions. All of the scenarios I mentioned are things I have seen with my own eyes several times this season.

It was not a shit point,
 
If we adopted Sheffield Utd 's system of 3412 do posters believe this would help us be more creative? Personally I think it would although now our back 4 appears to be more settled it is a tricky one.Additionally if we played 2 upfront would you just put 2 strikers there? Personally I would,if we adopted this system, play Lolley off Grabban and tell Lolley to be slightly deeper and makes himself difficult to mark and be free to run at them in occasions.Then have the likes of Darikwa and Cash out wide.Yacob,Colback and Gueddy fighting out two places to allow Carvalho more time on the ball slightly in front of them.Then picking a back 3 would be the next question. Don't get me wrong I am happy with our start and we are looking more solid in the formation but it's worth considering other options.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
Those with more objectivity might notice that I included a lot more scenarios than just blocks or interceptions. All of the scenarios I mentioned are things I have seen with my own eyes several times this season.

It was not a shit point,
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Evert single team has a song of woe. I posted objective stats, you posted a subjective opinion with absolutely 0 data. Do you even know what the terms means? Lol

Besides which isn't this what you wanted? We're now a stable, solid, hard to beat team who looks to edge games. Try being patient just once in your life and seeing if we gradually add more of an attacking threat. We've talented players who can open sides up, that will hopefully come in time. It's never going to be scintillating attacking football so enjoy it for what it is.
 
Ingy said:
If we adopted Sheffield Utd 's system of 3412 do posters believe this would help us be more creative? Personally I think it would although now our back 4 appears to be more settled it is a tricky one.Additionally if we played 2 upfront would you just put 2 strikers there? Personally I would,if we adopted this system, play Lolley off Grabban and tell Lolley to be slightly deeper and makes himself difficult to mark and be free to run at them in occasions.Then have the likes of Darikwa and Cash out wide.Yacob,Colback and Gueddy fighting out two places to allow Carvalho more time on the ball slightly in front of them.Then picking a back 3 would be the next question. Don't get me wrong I am happy with our start and we are looking more solid in the formation but it's worth considering other options.
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Robinson would arguably be more suited to a back 3. He nearly cost us yesterday when their player went clean through and on another day Pants would of been sent off. He's not great going forward but is largely strong defensively. I'm not convinced though that Dawson or Figi naturally suit a libero or sweeper role. Fox more so but right now those two have a solid partnership.

As for creatively, maybe but I'd be more inclined to stay as we are but drop Carvalho a little deeper to see if he can influence games more. The right side of the 3 is our weakest position currently.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Evert single team has a song of woe. I posted objective stats, you posted a subjective opinion with absolutely 0 data. Do you even know what the terms means? Lol

Besides which isn't this what you wanted? We're now a stable, solid, hard to beat team who looks to edge games. Try being patient just once in your life and seeing if we gradually add more of an attacking threat. We've talented players who can open sides up, that will hopefully come in time. It's never going to be scintillating attacking football so enjoy it for what it is.
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You have posted 'objective stats' with absolutely no source cited.

I didn't post any stats and where I tried to compare to other teams I was clear that it was anecdotal (I did use that word) and that I was requesting more information- which you haven't really given in a reliable way.

On average we have 11.5 shots per match, of which just under 4 are on target and 3.6 per match are blocked.

Looking at all of our rivals there seems no statistical different between the number of shots we have blocked compared to them. We are just having less shots in general but the proportions are almost identical.

However, on average we have about 2 shots less than most of the others per game. That's it. Given our number of goals scored, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

Interceptions are not included in the stats that I have been looking at https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/174/Show/England-Nottingham-Forest

I have no idea why you are trying to call for me to be patient when I am showing no impatience whatsoever and am supportive of the manager. I think he is doing a good job and am happy that we are losing so infrequently
 
Pope John XXIII said:
You have posted 'objective stats' with absolutely no source cited.

I didn't post any stats and where I tried to compare to other teams I was clear that it was anecdotal (I did use that word) and that I was requesting more information- which you haven't really given in a reliable way.

On average we have 11.5 shots per match, of which just under 4 are on target and 3.6 per match are blocked.

Looking at all of our rivals there seems no statistical different between the number of shots we have blocked compared to them. We are just having less shots in general but the proportions are almost identical.

However, on average we have about 2 shots less than most of the others per game. That's it. Given our number of goals scored, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

Interceptions are not included in the stats that I have been looking at https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/174/Show/England-Nottingham-Forest
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Shots being intercepted is a rather nebulous term. So anyway, after all your whinging you finally come around to my point of view. Congrats, that's a big step forward.

As I said, we're actually relatively clinical once we create good opportunities (we have a lot of long shots in those below average shots per game stats) but those opportunities are a touch too sparse to be challenging right at the very top currently. I see no reason why that won't improve though now we've a solid foundation to build upon but it's no coincidence that we rarely score more than two, nor rarely win comfortably.
 
Also just want to say kudos to AK and Darikwa for really solidifying that right back position. He was never quite as bad as some made out but right now I'm not sure I'd swap him for any other RB in the league.
 
Calvin Plummer said:
Also just want to say kudos to AK and Darikwa for really solidifying that right back position. He was never quite as bad as some made out but right now I'm not sure I'd swap him for any other RB in the league.
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I would also echo that.

I would say he was as bad as people, especially me, were making out.

But he has become significantly better. I don't know about being the best in the league but defensively he has been outstanding for several games.

When Byram returns we will have superb options of a RB for an attacking outlook and one for keeping things solid
 
Agree regarding darikwa and interesting that people rightly have touched on how defensively solid he's been when managers and fans alike constantly talked about him being superior going forward, which I never thought he was.

His interceptions and blocks in the last few weeks (one against Sheffield united near the end) have been superb. He's now also More confident getting forward which is positive!

He looks like he should be a great player darikwa and that a manager just needs to bring the confidence out in him. Hopefully we'll start to see that!

Overall, as someone who wasn't happy with the team at the beginning of the season, I'm much more content with how solid we've become and even if we aren't clicking on a constant going forward, we have it within us to turn it on, which means we quite literally go into every game with a chance of winning - I've not been able to say that since BD mark 1.

I think we'll only get better, though I wouldn't be against us getting a creative geddy type in Jan alongside another winger opposite lolley and possibly cover for Robinson & Grabban. Other than that, this season is a big opportunity, and provided we turn performances like stoke (I didn't enjoy the game to be honest), into wins, we'll be right up there with a chance!
 
Pope John XXIII said:
That can be a very misleading statistic.

How are chances created calculated?

If Carvalho shoots from distance and it goes miles over, does that count?

If lolly shoots on the edge of the area and it's blocked, does that count?

If a good cross comes in but player at the far post misses it, does that count or does he need to connect and miss the goal to count statistically?

If Dias slots through a superb through ball to Grabban but an aware defender just manages to cut it out, does that count?

If Cash recieves the ball in a great position in the box but just slips over, does that count?

If Grabban recieves in the same position but instead of taking it towards goal, inexplicably decides to travel wide, does that count?

I suspect none of the above count on your stats as chances created, yet in my view they are very reflective of our attacking play this season. We get into a lot of threatening positions and half chances but struggle with bad decision making (and sometimes bad luck) in taking them all the way
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That goes equally for all the other teams as well. We are not very creative.
 
Pope John XXIII said:
That can be a very misleading statistic.

How are chances created calculated?

If Carvalho shoots from distance and it goes miles over, does that count?

If lolly shoots on the edge of the area and it's blocked, does that count?

If a good cross comes in but player at the far post misses it, does that count or does he need to connect and miss the goal to count statistically?

If Dias slots through a superb through ball to Grabban but an aware defender just manages to cut it out, does that count?

If Cash recieves the ball in a great position in the box but just slips over, does that count?

If Grabban recieves in the same position but instead of taking it towards goal, inexplicably decides to travel wide, does that count?

I suspect none of the above count on your stats as chances created, yet in my view they are very reflective of our attacking play this season. We get into a lot of threatening positions and half chances but struggle with bad decision making (and sometimes bad luck) in taking them all the way
Click to expand...


Nice to see you honoring the dead at 11am Pope.
 
our stats back up what we have, a goal hanging striker who will put them away if laid on a plate and a talented creative player who is creative when he gets the ball, twice a game
 
paz1967 said:
our stats back up what we have, a goal hanging striker who will put them away if laid on a plate and a talented creative player who is creative when he gets the ball, twice a game
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Its patently obvious that a few things have changed since you last saw us play.

The goal hanging striker you allude to is now at Middlesborough and the other chap is currently busy not getting a game for Villa
 
mao tse tung said:
Its patently obvious that a few things have changed since you last saw us play.

The goal hanging striker you allude to is now at Middlesborough and the other chap is currently busy not getting a game for Villa
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funnily enough i was just saying id rather have a Britt than 2 Grabbans :)
 
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