Forest Progress- or not. | Vital Football

Forest Progress- or not.

Old Red Fart

Vital Champions League
It's obvious that we're not all going to agree on this but in my case I don't see the games so I'm probably biased from the word go. In the last 6 games we've won 4 and drawn 2 and in achieving that (which in itself is progress) we've managed to score 6 and let in 2, also 4 clean sheets. This seems to indicate that our manager is on track (in my view), starting with the defence. The 6 goals scored for us is not good enough and I feel sure that CH knows this. What's he going to do about it ? Not sure, but you can bet your boots he'd like to do something but with the players at his disposal his options are limited and I hope he's able to bring in a bit of new blood.

I think CH is doing a worthwhile job even though like a lot of us I don't understand some of his substitutions.

And I repeat that I don't see the games but do understand that in general some of them may not be worth watching.
 
Yes and no

Definate progress from the absolutely dire 7 games previous against top 7 sides, of which we comfortably lost 6.

Big progress on individual mistakes, which were killing us.

But still backwards from where we were performance wise in the first 6-7 games of the season, where we were creating plenty of chances but not finishing them. Attacking wise we are a shadow of the side that lost its first four games, but probably shouldn't have.

So, defensively we look good. McKenna and Worrall could be our best CB pairing in a decade. But our fullbacks are dogshit.
 
Yes and no

Definate progress from the absolutely dire 7 games previous against top 7 sides, of which we comfortably lost 6.

Big progress on individual mistakes, which were killing us.

But still backwards from where we were performance wise in the first 6-7 games of the season, where we were creating plenty of chances but not finishing them. Attacking wise we are a shadow of the side that lost its first four games, but probably shouldn't have.

So, defensively we look good. McKenna and Worrall could be our best CB pairing in a decade. But our fullbacks are dogshit.

Bit harsh on ribz
 
Ribz has been ineffective this year. Iffy at defending, no real support in attack.

I thought Bong looked better than him yesterday and deserves another go

Sadly i didnt watch yesterday so missed bong's performance but harsh. How many individual errors has ribz made? I dont think he is outstanding but solid. Works with ameobi better than when they started. Has scored for us too this season which is something.

As i said he hasnt managed a pedestal position but you are being unfair, he is part of the 6 undefeated and recent clean sheets
 
Sadly i didnt watch yesterday so missed bong's performance but harsh. How many individual errors has ribz made? I dont think he is outstanding but solid. Works with ameobi better than when they started. Has scored for us too this season which is something.

As i said he hasnt managed a pedestal position but you are being unfair, he is part of the 6 undefeated and recent clean sheets
I didn't say he had made Individual errors.

In fairness, your post has given me cause to go and look up the stats.

My instinct is very much that the fullbacks have been poor and aren't helping us much.

I still think that that isn't too far from the case; but in comparison to the rest of the team, the fullbacks are actually some of our best players.

Highest rated player in the squad on whoscired for performances is Cyrus Christie. 2 assists; second highest interceptions in the squad, fourth highest for tackles per game. Decent aerial. Third highest for clearances. Only Cafu of the regulars average more key passes. His rating is 6.86 on average, which is pretty meh and would have put him as about the 5th best player last season.

Ribiero is rated as 6.39, which is absolute bang average and would have have had him outside our top 11 performers last season. This season it puts him 5th best. He also has two assists (which in fairness I had not picked up on). Only McKenna and Yates are more successful in the air. Lolley, Knockaert and Ameobi are the only players more successful at dribbling. His defensive stats are less impressive but not out of line with other defenders.

So my instinct that they had been fairly poor probably wasnt a million miles out, but I didn't consider that the entire squad has been dire. By forest 20-21 standards they are actually some of our best performers and I was wrong.
 
I suppose it depends on where you want to measure from. Although we have a bit of a run 6 unbeaten I don't think we are actually playing as well as early season (Barnsley game apart) in those game we created several chances through some decent football it's just that Grabban and one or two others missed them meaning we had the disastrous start, we then embarked on the run of fixtures against top sides where it quickly became clear we were nowhere near good enough. However since then against more mediocre teams we have got some results without looking particularly good, the defence though is looking more sound wince Worrall came back, so I suppose the jury is still out.
 
I didn't say he had made Individual errors.

In fairness, your post has given me cause to go and look up the stats.

My instinct is very much that the fullbacks have been poor and aren't helping us much.

I still think that that isn't too far from the case; but in comparison to the rest of the team, the fullbacks are actually some of our best players.

Highest rated player in the squad on whoscired for performances is Cyrus Christie. 2 assists; second highest interceptions in the squad, fourth highest for tackles per game. Decent aerial. Third highest for clearances. Only Cafu of the regulars average more key passes. His rating is 6.86 on average, which is pretty meh and would have put him as about the 5th best player last season.

Ribiero is rated as 6.39, which is absolute bang average and would have have had him outside our top 11 performers last season. This season it puts him 5th best. He also has two assists (which in fairness I had not picked up on). Only McKenna and Yates are more successful in the air. Lolley, Knockaert and Ameobi are the only players more successful at dribbling. His defensive stats are less impressive but not out of line with other defenders.

So my instinct that they had been fairly poor probably wasnt a million miles out, but I didn't consider that the entire squad has been dire. By forest 20-21 standards they are actually some of our best performers and I was wrong.

I think bang average is fair. It is difficult to be as objective as usual given some of the 'football' this season. There have been games i would have sworn on my life that every single one of em were league one at best!
 
I suppose it depends on where you want to measure from. Although we have a bit of a run 6 unbeaten I don't think we are actually playing as well as early season (Barnsley game apart) in those game we created several chances through some decent football it's just that Grabban and one or two others missed them meaning we had the disastrous start, we then embarked on the run of fixtures against top sides where it quickly became clear we were nowhere near good enough. However since then against more mediocre teams we have got some results without looking particularly good, the defence though is looking more sound wince Worrall came back, so I suppose the jury is still out.

Im on the positive end of that. Accepting that it doesnt change over night, there are signs of progress, albeit way slower than desired. Not entirely unsurprising given the cack situation everyone is living under.

We should probably feel pleased cos getting rid of another manager would have been suicide. Not sure the jury can consider evidence from this season cos it just aint a normal one.
 
I think last year we had a good defence but we were pretty shit in the main. Losing Cashy was a big blow so we've done well to keep a solid defence in the main.

Apart from that I see no progress at all, the manager still insisting on playing players like lolley who has shown absolutely nothing for a year boggles belief, What happened to perform or be out cos have a strong squad?
The basics in the final third just terrible, the backwards passing in the middle third frustrating, the crossing awful..

I mention basics and clearly CH is like SL in the sense he literally has no clue how to play attacking.. He should watch footballing sides and maybe have us playing 2 touch football and crossing the ball early every time into that 10 yard spot so the striker(s) can actually anticipate the cross. And if playing a lone striker tell him to stay in the middle and not on the wings leaving noone in the box, and maybe get midfielders actually overlap the striker once in a while(like Mighten did for his goal?).

Its boring, slow, predictable, non threatening..

I was supporting him as I do all managers and I was hopeful because unlike some he does identify the issues and early doors was trying different things. But if something doesnt work for half a game its thrown out the window and its back to negativity.

Back to Lolley.. come on. we all have visions of him at his best but even then it was twice a month and now he's just a deadweight and its clear as day, we cant keep carrying players, we are already carrying dozens in the squad and that decision alone makes me wonder what the manager is actually watching
 
I think last year we had a good defence but we were pretty shit in the main. Losing Cashy was a big blow so we've done well to keep a solid defence in the main.

Apart from that I see no progress at all, the manager still insisting on playing players like lolley who has shown absolutely nothing for a year boggles belief, What happened to perform or be out cos have a strong squad?
The basics in the final third just terrible, the backwards passing in the middle third frustrating, the crossing awful..

I mention basics and clearly CH is like SL in the sense he literally has no clue how to play attacking.. He should watch footballing sides and maybe have us playing 2 touch football and crossing the ball early every time into that 10 yard spot so the striker(s) can actually anticipate the cross. And if playing a lone striker tell him to stay in the middle and not on the wings leaving noone in the box, and maybe get midfielders actually overlap the striker once in a while(like Mighten did for his goal?).

Its boring, slow, predictable, non threatening..

I was supporting him as I do all managers and I was hopeful because unlike some he does identify the issues and early doors was trying different things. But if something doesnt work for half a game its thrown out the window and its back to negativity.

Back to Lolley.. come on. we all have visions of him at his best but even then it was twice a month and now he's just a deadweight and its clear as day, we cant keep carrying players, we are already carrying dozens in the squad and that decision alone makes me wonder what the manager is actually watching

Hasn't Lolley been benched for the last few league games? He started yesterday as one of eight changes and you'd expect he'll be back on the bench for the next game
 
Also in Hughton's play-off season with Birmingham and promotion season with Brighton his teams finished as the 4th top scorers in the division. In his play-off season with Brighton they finished as the division's joint-top scorer.

That kind of dispels the idea that he is incapable of setting his team up to play attacking football.

My guess is that he saw our team, saw the lack of attacking options, smelled the stench of defeat running throughout the club and made a decision to focus on being solid and grinding results out in the short term.
 
Also in Hughton's play-off season with Birmingham and promotion season with Brighton his teams finished as the 4th top scorers in the division. In his play-off season with Brighton they finished as the division's joint-top scorer.

That kind of dispels the idea that he is incapable of setting his team up to play attacking football.

My guess is that he saw our team, saw the lack of attacking options, smelled the stench of defeat running throughout the club and made a decision to focus on being solid and grinding results out in the short term.
Couldn’t agree more.
 
Also in Hughton's play-off season with Birmingham and promotion season with Brighton his teams finished as the 4th top scorers in the division. In his play-off season with Brighton they finished as the division's joint-top scorer.

That kind of dispels the idea that he is incapable of setting his team up to play attacking football.

My guess is that he saw our team, saw the lack of attacking options, smelled the stench of defeat running throughout the club and made a decision to focus on being solid and grinding results out in the short term.

These were teams, if im not mistaken that had been relegated and had 100mliion quid. Bar maybe Brighton, but they had certainly invested and been in the play offs a few times. Those structures were already there, he just had to keep it going.

besides, thats just dumb.. see our strengths and weaknesses and stick with it, when 100% blatant it needs sorting out the weaknesses, the strengths dont take any work. Thats the definition of lack of progress
 
These were teams, if im not mistaken that had been relegated and had 100mliion quid. Bar maybe Brighton, but they had certainly invested and been in the play offs a few times. Those structures were already there, he just had to keep it going.

besides, thats just dumb.. see our strengths and weaknesses and stick with it, when 100% blatant it needs sorting out the weaknesses, the strengths dont take any work. Thats the definition of lack of progress

Bit disingenuous. Pep at Barcelona might be said to have just needed to keep it going but we all know promotion from this league is not that simple.
 
These were teams, if im not mistaken that had been relegated and had 100mliion quid. Bar maybe Brighton, but they had certainly invested and been in the play offs a few times. Those structures were already there, he just had to keep it going.

besides, thats just dumb.. see our strengths and weaknesses and stick with it, when 100% blatant it needs sorting out the weaknesses, the strengths dont take any work. Thats the definition of lack of progress

Birmingham had just been relegated from the PL, but Brighton were in the bottom 3 when he took over them mid-season. They did finish 6th the previous season but were the lowest scorers in the top half, so he hardly took over a free-flowing, attacking side.

Surely it's difficult for him to address our weakness of being poor in attack if he doesn't have the players for it? Also bear in mind that our top goalscorer for the last 2 seasons has been injured for a large chunk of CH's 20 games here. You can't get blood from a stone.

It sounds like CH is focussed on recruiting creative and attacking midfielders this window, so let's hope we see some improvement after Jan. Any business we do this month will be geared towards next season anyway.
 
These were teams, if im not mistaken that had been relegated and had 100mliion quid. Bar maybe Brighton, but they had certainly invested and been in the play offs a few times. Those structures were already there, he just had to keep it going.

besides, thats just dumb.. see our strengths and weaknesses and stick with it, when 100% blatant it needs sorting out the weaknesses, the strengths dont take any work. Thats the definition of lack of progress

As usual, you are very much mistaken.

Newcastle were relegated in 2009 when parachute payments stood at 16m over 2 seasons, and boy did Chrisy go to Town with that money!

He had to off load over 24m worth of players, including Damien Duff, Martins and Bassong, while spending around 3m on Routledge, Simpson and Leon Best

Birmingham were relegated in 2011 when the parachute payment stood at 24m over 2 seasons; looking at what Hughton had to spend on players during the 2011 12 season, it looks very much like he did not get any of that money to spend on players.

He had to off load the likes of Barry Fergusson, Craig Gardner and Scott Dann and was allowed to bring in 9 free transfers and 2 players for nominal fees.

At Brighton he inherited a team in 23rd position at the turn of the year and failed to keep them up.

So no, the structures (of the team) were not already there.
 
He's steadied it but during that horrible spell against the higher teams he seemed stubborn best example was in not taking fig out of the firing line when he was costing us game after game. We maybe aren't great going forward we have no real attack minded central players so I get trying to make us hard to beat, but the complete lack of any attempt to play on the front foot is getting painful. Hopefully he gets one or two cm who can pass and shoot, that could be all we need to at least become a side capable of causing teams a consistent threat.