Foreign Managers

Erod

Erod

Gone but not forgotten...
With the international break just wondered what the foreign managers will be up to, and are they overrated..
Are the top six clubs where they are because they have a foreign boss, or is it because they have all the money.
Why couldn’t a British boss do as well, .......is controlling the foreign players a problem.

How would those top six managers get on managing a famous old club say like Preston.

Surely there must be a Fergie waiting for a chance, I hope so, I get fed up of listening to all these foreign bods,

The best answer would be for Bruce and Tone to crack it for us
 
Foreign managers know they have to move beyond their own shores if they want a classy club. Same with players. Breeds a different attitude. Concentrates the mind. How many English managers or players have thought of trying it abroad, or even shown that they're interested in it? OK some English players are good enough for foreign clubs to come and get them, but they're exceptional. Owen Hargreaves is the only player I can think of who set out to play for a foreign club, and he was Canadian in all but name. Foreign managers know they have to come in and succeed; past reputations don't count.

Robson was a successful manager abroad, so for that matter was Hodgson. There were a few others. Barcelona had a few between the wars, like Jack Greenwell, who was said to be responsible for introducing the Barcelona style!

Look at MU players like Giggs who've said that they want to get into management "but are waiting for the right club". Hopeless; managers need the sort of appetite for the job that they'll get some job, somewhere, whatever. Sam's a better manager than Giggs will ever be. Bottom line; we produce very few top players and very few top managers. It can change, but when?

 
I think foreign managers have several advantages:
They've all worked in at least 2 countries
Often played in a couple of countries
They therefore bring a wider range of experience than domestic managers and former players

There is the whole of European club football to choose from [and managers from other countries who've worked in top European leagues] ie there are more potential recruits [numbers wise] with top league level experience

They generally have language skills and experience of adapting to a foreign culture while British managers may find it difficult to understand the adaptation problems of their new non-British players

They may have knowledge and contacts to bring in foreign players, as Wenger in his early years

Former British players do need to learn their managerial trade before becoming managers but is Division 1 or 2 really preparation for managing big international star egos?

Many of the British managers who seem to have missed out are in fact 'old school' types whose success at lower levels may not be transferable

But having said all that
Yes Pep and Co. have massive budget advantages and it's very difficult for a Brit to prove himself against such managers as they don't have the resources to compete
And yes Fergie and others proved that it can be done

I applaud Neville [although wrong level for a tyro], Coleman, Moyes, McLaren going abroad to broaden their skills but actually few British managers have succeeded since Robson & Venebles.

I also think there seems to be more willingness by young British players to go on loan and learn their trade abroad rather than in the reserves. This must be a good thing.
 
I think SAF did pretty well so no reason others can't but with our obsession with everything foreign being better they are unlikely to get the chance
 
In other countries, managers who do well with mid-level clubs get bigger jobs. In England, foreign managers get the top jobs because they managed top clubs in their home countries. Managers like Big Sam, Hughes and Pulis would all have got top jobs in Italy if they had achieved similar things with lower ranked Italian teams.

 
If our own expierences are anything to go by since our last succesful manager Martin Oneill left it would seem to make little difference. We have had two Frenchmen,two Englishmen, two Scotsmen and an Italian. That is a fairly cosmopolitan list and we are still bloody useless.
 
I think the coaching courses etc are better abroad with the emphasis on technique and passing and movement.

Here it seems "being up for it" and getting stuck in are primary requirements.
 
sirdennis - 6/11/2017 21:55

I think the coaching courses etc are better abroad with the emphasis on technique and passing and movement.

Here it seems "being up for it" and getting stuck in are primary requirements.
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I think that's part of it when I think about underage level in Ireland for instance there were always a couple different classes of manager. A couple who tried to implement football, some who focused solely on fitness and then all the rest who just tried to motivate you to get up for a game and get stuck in. The latter who always picked the biggest and strongest guys.

My dad appreciates good football he grew up watching the dutch sides of the 60/70s but himself and a coach for the school football teams were the only two coaches I ever had that said 'pass and move'. Never came across it anywhere else which I always knew was weird. With that said they were also like 'don't fuck about in the backline play ball when you get into their half'. My dad is the only person I have every played under where he didnt play 4-4-2. He did a version of 3-4-3 and we did pretty well.

The only people who I trust football wise now are people who believe your best player in a bad team needs to play centre back. Your best player usually reads the game the well, is comfortable on the ball and see's a pass and can execute it. Only intelligent players can play centre back IMO most players who don't have a footballing brain are an absolute disaster at centre back.

Anyway I am just trying to say I agree the majority of coaches in the UK and Ireland focus on different things.
 
sirdennis - 6/11/2017 21:55

I think the coaching courses etc are better abroad with the emphasis on technique and passing and movement.

Here it seems "being up for it" and getting stuck in are primary requirements.
Click to expand...

Yet a good number come here, Scots and Wales apparently for their UEFA qualifications which I've always found strange.

But I guess they have their 'philosophy' pre formed.
 
Simple game made complicated by coaches
Too much licking of foreigners boots.
Get stuck in is our way of saying play hard but fair

They prefer the sinical foul , spitting shirt pulling and diving.

Go back as far as you like we have had great and various ways of playing.
Powerful Villa 128 goals but only runners up to Herbert Chapman’s classic Arsenal.
Spurs push and run side of 51
Wolves wonderful long ball game masterminded by Peter Broardbent.
Matt Busby’s Babes who would surely have dominated Europe but for Munich.
Spurs double winning team of 61 playing the smoothist football ive seen.
66 Charlton Moore Banks Wilson and the injured Greaves. Absolute World Class.
68 Best Law Charlton
Leeds perfected 442
70’s 80’’s onwards Liverpool Forest Villa Man U British managers various stiles.

Then came the greed league , and we now have the top 6 foreign managed.
Well they can’t all win the league so how long will they last ?
West Ham thoight we’ll have a bit of this , new ground new foreign manager expected to be at the top, crap players ,didn’t work out Bilic gone.

It’s players that make managers , the top 6 show that.


 
BodyButter - 6/11/2017 19:57

In other countries, managers who do well with mid-level clubs get bigger jobs. In England, foreign managers get the top jobs because they managed top clubs in their home countries. Managers like Big Sam, Hughes and Pulis would all have got top jobs in Italy if they had achieved similar things with lower ranked Italian teams.
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Agreed. These managers are viewed as “dinosaurs” mostly by the media-driven pundits because they have to set teams up to play a certain way in order to gain success (relatively speaking). They are never given the chance at big clubs despite being just as qualified as their foreign counter parts. The reality is that coach education is standardized across all of Europe, so the argument that they are educated a certain way because they’re British is really not valid. The REALITY is they’ll never get the chance at a big club due to the fact that they are never given the opportunity to set a team up to win with expansive attacking football...
 
Agree with Erod. It would be great to see what Pep could do with say Sunderland and their budget. I’m sure he’d do well but we’ll never find out. Clough was able to turn any club into something that could compete with the best of the day. Love to have seen him in this era. Would have made Mourinho look modest.

 
I think a good manager is a good manager and a bad manager is a bad manager.

I don't think nationality comes into it. Why should it?

 
Not sure the players retiring wanting to get into management are interested in learning their trade, they seem to want top jobs from the get go.
 
I don't think it's a case of either, 'pass and move', or, 'run flat out for 90 minutes', rather a combination of both.
A sensible player will find times to relax and rest during a match, ways to conserve energy.
We had a manager, way back when, Dr Josef Venglos, who was probably 30 years ahead of his time for British football. The way he wanted to play was the prototype for Pep at Man City.
Someone made the point that the best most intelligent player in a team had to be a centreback. I'm afraid I disagree, I think the most intelligent player should be the holding midfielder.
As for British coaches, the reason none are in the top six premiership clubs comes down to the fear of owners.
There are several great young coaches in lower league clubs and if one or two were given their heads, not only to run their teams as they want but, to get in the players they want, there is no reason why they could not be as successful as the top foreign coaches.
 
It's not just owners, though. Fans tend not to be enthusiastic about British managers they are familiar with, the "we want anybody but ..." syndrome. Look at the flack thrown at Moyes, in spite of a very good record (MU wasn't a disaster, if not up to expectations, and he was shafted by not getting the players that he wanted). How many would take Moyes here (in spite of a far better record than Bruce)? Moyes at WHU has lot to overcome.
Another one, Curbishley. Could have got him instead of Eck. Did wonders with Charlton in the PL, had Bent and Murphy forming a great partnership, the sort of thing we've lacked for years. Most fans said no.
And Allerdyce. Sam knows what he's doing. He's not the dinosaur everybody claims.
 
The Fear - 8/11/2017 10:07

Not sure the players retiring wanting to get into management are interested in learning their trade, they seem to want top jobs from the get go.
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100% true also. Look at Giggs. He has a spell of four average games at ManUre as caretaker with one season as assistant and he is trying to put himself up for big jobs. Keane was the same too. If you want to prove yourself as a manager go into the lower leagues for a few years. Some of our better managers did it that way - Little (Darlington), Gregory (Wycombe), BFR (Oxford), O’Neill (Wycombe) and even the great Sir Ron all learned their trade at lower league clubs and PROVED THEMSELVES.
 
Look at Wilder at Sheff U - did his apprenticeship in effect, moved up slowly and who would you rather watch?

If Giggs was genuine he'd earn his crust in L2 or even Scotland, if not non league, so it difficult not to come to the assumption he'd have a crack if a Prem side came in with a Prem wage and a Prem compensation package. He's far from alone - that's what they are used to in the modern game.
 
"And Allerdyce. Sam knows what he's doing. He's not the dinosaur everybody claims"

He brought in some good footballers at Bolton
 
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