Foreign coaches n/g

G

Grecian 2500

Vital Squad Member
What is the fixation some club owners have with foreign coaches?
Sam Allardyce and David Moyes have both done what was asked of them but now we see Everton are allegedly going for Marco Silva and West Ham Paulo Fonseca.
What have either achieved?
Arsenal are a another club looking abroad.
Whilst the top 4 of the Premiership have achieved success with foreign coaches this season they have also had success in the past with British coaches/managers.
Surely the likes of Howe, Dyche, Allardyce deserve more respect?
 
Everton are under pressure from the fans to replace Allardyce as they don’t like his style of football. Their fans actions towards him have actually been disgraceful. It was interesting to see the Chief Executive resign yesterday over the issue!

I wouldn’t say Moyes was a particularly popular choice at West Ham either.

Howe and Dyche are very promising. Dyche could do with perhaps another season in the Prem before we can really start getting excited about him, but Howe could definitely move. I actually think fans will accept him too over a more successful foreign manager, but I think he’s the exception rather than the rule.

With the amount of money in the Prem fans are under the impression they can simply poach any decent manager/head coach from anywhere else. This and the need for ‘proven results’ mean these proven managers will get the chance along with the few English jobhoppers while there’s little opportunity for a fresh face like Gerrard.
 
Where's the disrespect to the likes of Howe and Dyche? Dyche, for example, will now have a chance to experience playing in Europe, which means in time he could be well placed to go to the likes of Man U or Arsenal. Gerrard may be good but he hasn't cut his teeth in the real world, ie lower leagues but he'll be facing undue pressure both on and on the pitch at Rangers. Moyes should have stayed at Everton and, Allardyce, Bolton but we are seeing good managers develop. We have other prospects - look at how Millwall, Shrewsbury and Plymouth have done. There's Chris Coleman, who did sterling work for Wales and Mark Hughes might just have cracked it this time. Then we have others like Simon Grayson, who showed promise, but has under-achieved. It's not as easy as you make out.
 
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Wayne.Kerr said:
Where's the disrespect to the likes of Howe and Dyche? Dyche, for example, will now have a chance to experience playing in Europe, which means in time he could be well placed to go to the likes of Man U or Arsenal. Gerrard may be good but he hasn't cut his teeth in the real world, ie lower leagues but he'll be facing undue pressure both on and on the pitch at Rangers. Moyes should have stayed at Everton and, Allardyce, Bolton but we are seeing good managers develop. We have other prospects - look at how Millwall, Shrewsbury and Plymouth have done. There's Chris Coleman, who did sterling work for Wales and Mark Hughes might just have cracked it this time. Then we have others like Simon Grayson, who showed promise but has under-achieved. It's not as easy as you make out.
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Not sure who you're responding to here Wayne.
If it's not as easy then shouldn't we bring on British managers with experience rather than bring in foreign coaches?
I accept that some foreign coaches have added to football in this country but many haven't but still we see clubs chasing coaches from overseas.
 
British managers like Sam Allardyce, David Moyes, Shaun Dyche, Tony Pulis, Mark Hughes and all the other managers maybe par Eddie Howe have reputations for playing more pragmatic football which is a buzz phrase meaning "non-sexy football". In the modern age of football then people want to be entertained.

Eddie Howe will probably end up at a club like Everton first and if he does well then maybe get given a chance in Manchester or North London. Of course Bournemouth only have to have a bad season and be relegated for his stock to fall.
 
I don't have much respect for Allardyce, does that make me a bad football fan.

There is a tendency to employ foreign coaches and there are many factors. One important one is little mentioned: the cost of English players and their tie ins with agents. Certain English managers have cost their clubs dear with expensive purchases and the promise of "contacts" enabling them to sign top English talent. I think many boardrooms are now persuaded that this is a racket.

Employ a foreign coach and he will often give you access to cheaper and better players. Who wouldn't.
 
Brexiteer said:
Not sure who you're responding to here Wayne.
If it's not as easy then shouldn't we bring on British managers with experience rather than bring in foreign coaches?
I accept that some foreign coaches have added to football in this country but many haven't but still we see clubs chasing coaches from overseas.
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I highlighted instances where British managers are succeeding and others will develop. Before foreign managers were commonplace, the turnover of those in the hot seat was the same as to-day but, the world has changed, and club owners now have a pool of foreigners to choose from. Clubs make a difference too; look at Burnley. The get promoted under Dyche and then relegated but the club stuck by him and, now, they're in Europe for the first time in 50 years under his guidance on a limited budget. Good players don't necessarily make good managers [think of Colin Todd]; whereas, people that barely played with any distinction can work wonders - take Bertie Mee and Wenger at Arsenal. Moyes contract was up at West Ham and, with what's going on there, I think he's best away - I'd say back to Everton, although the fickle fans may think differently. Not sure about Allardyce.
 
jogills said:
I don't have much respect for Allardyce, does that make me a bad football fan.

There is a tendency to employ foreign coaches and there are many factors. One important one is little mentioned: the cost of English players and their tie ins with agents. Certain English managers have cost their clubs dear with expensive purchases and the promise of "contacts" enabling them to sign top English talent. I think many boardrooms are now persuaded that this is a racket.

Employ a foreign coach and he will often give you access to cheaper and better players. Who wouldn't.
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I'm not sure that argument holds up when you look at some of the purchases made by Ranieri, K
jogills said:
I don't have much respect for Allardyce, does that make me a bad football fan.

There is a tendency to employ foreign coaches and there are many factors. One important one is little mentioned: the cost of English players and their tie ins with agents. Certain English managers have cost their clubs dear with expensive purchases and the promise of "contacts" enabling them to sign top English talent. I think many boardrooms are now persuaded that this is a racket.

Employ a foreign coach and he will often give you access to cheaper and better players. Who wouldn't.
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I'm not so sure this argument holds up when you look at the amount of money wasted by some foreign coaches e.g. Van Gaal, Koeman, Martinez, Ranieri, Mourinho, Conte.
Even Wenger bought some dross.
 
I don't know why we need foreign coaches, when Shearings or Leger do a reasonable job?
 
Bugger, beat me to it. I was going to make a comment about the steering wheel being on the wrong side on foreign coaches.
 
It is not going to help British managers the fact that all three of the teams that got relegated mainly used British managers to take them down .Although that in fact is in part is caused by the fact that British managers will be far more likely to get the management jobs at smaller clubs .
 
Alan Pardew - a true Brit but an abysmal manager overall. We first have to accept that being British doesn't mean being good, although we will see a fair few come through the ranks but, even then, not all will be able to hack it at the top. We'll see how the Blackburn and Wigan managers get on, for example. We've seen how promising managers such as Karl Robinson have failed, although he might succeed if he learns from his mistakes.
 
What is dumb about this whole issue is that a person's nationality, race, religion, gender or any other number of identity attributes has absolutely no baring on a person's ability to manage. A foreign manager is no more likely to be good or bad than a domestic one.

All statistics really show is that the really top players are statistically more likely to suck at managing than players who had a decent but unspectacular career.

Success seems to depend more on the owners and if they give good amount of resources and patience or not. Most of the time success seems to be about being in the right club at the right time.
 
Baghdad_Rob said:
What is dumb about this whole issue is that a person's nationality, race, religion, gender or any other number of identity attributes has absolutely no baring on a person's ability to manage. A foreign manager is no more likely to be good or bad than a domestic one.

All statistics really show is that the really top players are statistically more likely to suck at managing than players who had a decent but unspectacular career.

Success seems to depend more on the owners and if they give good amount of resources and patience or not. Most of the time success seems to be about being in the right club at the right time.
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I mentioned Bertie Mee; he had an undistinguished playing career and became a physio. Joined Arsenal as a physio in 1960 and was surprisingly appointed manager in 1966 and had reasonable success during his ten year stint.
 
Was only saying to my son today about the great influx of foreign mnagers, players and the vast ammounts of money into the game.

Before all of these things happened and when i started watching football I watched the most entertaining of football with Best, Law, Charlton, Greaves, Mathews, Marsh, etc. The great Liverpool team, the 68 European Cup Final, the Great 1966 and possibly better 1970 England team.
I was watching the mighty Gills who had gone 54 games without defeat at home with Gibbo, Green, Yeo, Meredith, Crickmore, etc and the great Arsenal game before 23002 (summit like that) fans.

Aint I lucky that we now have it so much better with these great improvements shoved upon us. Feel sad for the current generation who are told that evrything is better in the new era.
 
Brexiteer said:
What is the fixation some club owners have with foreign coaches?
Sam Allardyce and David Moyes have both done what was asked of them but now we see Everton are allegedly going for Marco Silva and West Ham Paulo Fonseca.
What have either achieved?
Arsenal are a another club looking abroad.
Whilst the top 4 of the Premiership have achieved success with foreign coaches this season they have also had success in the past with British coaches/managers.
Surely the likes of Howe, Dyche, Allardyce deserve more respect?
Click to expand...

I think in the Premier League a monster has unintentionally been created. The influx of both foreign players and coaches is killing the English game at the top level.

The money on offer is a top draw and is the root cause -with a few exceptions the PL pays more across the whole division than anywhere in the world - whilst most countries have a few 'big' teams the majority have nowhere near the amount of money even smaller PL clubs do. This means they do not attract the percentage of foreign players and coaches we do - consequently they will have more home grown players and coaches who sooner or later are going to win something - our PL clubs then go after these and English playing and coaching staff don't even get a look in.

Whilst you get a few naturally gifted players - Scholes, Beckham, Gasgoigne, the majority will not develop until they are played at the top level,

Don't forget Harry Kane only got a game at spurs due to injuries - Jamie Vardy had to get promoted to play in the Premier League and then for England.

So chicken and egg situation really.

There are so many foreign coaches who have come over and then disappeared never to be heard of again...it was typical that Pep Guardiola got manager of the year - working with what was probably the biggest budget going - how would he have fared at Burnley or Brighton????

Now the England manager is picking from less players than ever.

For those clubs wanting a 'more attractive' style of football - I am sure Stoke and Swansea fans will tell you they are paying the price for it.
 
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