Football League likely to resume behind closed doors

[Polly 433]

See the Germans are talking about a salary cap. Pro football as it stands is unsustainable. The EFL is going to have to discuss this as soon as this season finishes or is abandoned.

 

[JC21]

Barnsley are going to take the EFL to the cleaners if they are relegated due to the “inability of governance to hold its members accountable”

This could be a one sided fight due to Barnsley having owners with serious coin at their disposal.

The EFLs quest to redefine the word "integrity" looks like it has run into difficulties:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/25/barnsley-relegation-letter-efl

Wouldn't this just make the EFL more inclined to clear Derby and SW of any wrong doing?

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Wouldn't this just make the EFL more inclined to clear Derby and SW of any wrong doing?

I think so.

Utlimately, what are Barnsley going to do?

They start in the division they are put in or lose their golden share. A good court win isn't going to compensate for that

 

[mao tse tung]

Wouldn't this just make the EFL more inclined to clear Derby and SW of any wrong doing?

I do not see how it can; whatever happens there will need to be transparency.

Provided Barnsley do not jump the gun and take action before the cases relating to P & S breaches have been heard and rulings given, they hold all of the aces.

They also have something the EFL do not have, the massive cash resources of very wealthy owners who will no doubt have a very high powered legal team.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

I do not see how it can; whatever happens there will need to be transparency.

Provided Barnsley do not jump the gun and take action before the cases relating to P & S breaches have been heard and rulings given, they hold all of the aces.

They also have something the EFL do not have, the massive cash resources of very wealthy owners who will no doubt have a very high powered legal team.

Since when have Barnsley had super rich owners? They have not behaved this season as if they had, having the youngest squad in the league and selling some of their best players again.

And again, what are they going to do?

In September they will be in League 1 one way or another. If the EFL have not finished their case against Derby and co by then, what exactly are Barnsley going to do about it through the courts?

They say they won't accept relegation. It isn't theirs to accept or reject.

 

[mao tse tung]

I think so.

Utlimately, what are Barnsley going to do?

They start in the division they are put in or lose their golden share. A good court win isn't going to compensate for that

There is no legal precedent for what the EFL are proposing.

The EFL keep talking about maintaining the integrity of the game yet their actions in proposing a PPG solution are destroying that integrity.

There are no grounds for taking away Barnsley's Golden Share; it is not them in disrepute, it is the EFL.

I am not so sure that the EFL have the power to take that share away; it would need to be subject to a vote involving all members, a vote the EFL would struggle to win.

There is only one absolute certainty in all of this and that is the EFL Governance is not fit for purpose; that is what you get when it is riven with self interest

 

[Pope John XXIII]

There is no legal precedent for what the EFL are proposing.

The EFL keep talking about maintaining the integrity of the game yet their actions in proposing a PPG solution are destroying that integrity.

There are no grounds for taking away Barnsley's Golden Share; it is not them in disrepute, it is the EFL.

I am not so sure that the EFL have the power to take that share away; it would need to be subject to a vote involving all members, a vote the EFL would struggle to win.

There is only one absolute certainty in all of this and that is the EFL Governance is not fit for purpose; that is what you get when it is riven with self interest

Equally, Barnsley have zero power to dictate what division they are in though. What are they going to do; turn up to Oakwell and wait for a championship team that will never arrive, while their league one opponents have a kick around at their empty home ground?

My point really is that the kind of action Barnsley are talking about is one that could take months and years to resolve. Barnsley are time limited; the EFL is not. If you haven't got that amount of time (and Barnsley haven't) before the outcome becomes irrelevant then you surely aren't holding a winning hand?

I agree there is no precedent for PPG, but that is why we are in unprecedented territory and why it will go to a majority vote. Although if you believe Alan Nixon the majority of the championship are determined to play anyway.

My one prediction in all of this is that Derby at least will get off scot free; possibly by ignoring the most nefarious of their practices and clearing them only on the more ambitious ground related matters.

 

[mao tse tung]

Since when have Barnsley had super rich owners? They have not behaved this season as if they had, having the youngest squad in the league and selling some of their best players again.

And again, what are they going to do?

In September they will be in League 1 one way or another. If the EFL have not finished their case against Derby and co by then, what exactly are Barnsley going to do about it through the courts?

They say they won't accept relegation. It isn't theirs to accept or reject.

Clubs do not deserve to be relegated when other Clubs in the League have been guilty of blatant cheating; and the number of Clubs in that bracket could be as high as 8

Clubs do not deserve to be relegated when the League has not been concluded and the powers that be come up with a barking mad idea in how to decide that league.

The only Club in the Championship with wealthier owners than Barnsley are Stoke and Chien Lee is not too far behind the Coates family.

As for selling players; they are governed by the same rules on P & S as all other Clubs should be - the Owners cannot come in throwing money around it is not allowed.

Besides that, they are implementing a long term plan based on developing their own players and having the correct structure in place for that to happen.

There will be more than a few Clubs following that plan in the very near future.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Clubs do not deserve to be relegated when other Clubs in the League have been guilty of blatant cheating; and the number of Clubs in that bracket could be as high as 8

Clubs do not deserve to be relegated when the League has not been concluded and the powers that be come up with a barking mad idea in how to decide that league.

The only Club in the Championship with wealthier owners than Barnsley are Stoke and Chien Lee is not too far behind the Coates family.

As for selling players; they are governed by the same rules on P & S as all other Clubs should be - the Owners cannot come in throwing money around it is not allowed.

Besides that, they are implementing a long term plan based on developing their own players and having the correct structure in place for that to happen.

There will be more than a few Clubs following that plan in the very near future.

I don't disagree with the first point. But unfortunately, the offending teams, especially Derby, are a lot better at cheating than the EFL are at noticing. Derby will get off; their exec being on the EFL board is a blatent conflict of interest but will see them miraculously cleared. The fact that Derby have been cheating and the EFL more or less waved them through having not noticed will be decisive.

Second point I disagree with. I have seen several barking mad solutions to ending the season, one of which sees 17th place Sheffield Wednesday promoted in third. PPG (my preference is for weighted rather than unweighted) is about the worst solution; except for all the others. In our division at least (because everyone has more or less played the same number of games) it more or less leaves the placings where they are.

There are winners of course (ourselves, who I think may well have collapsed and dropped out of the playoffs; Hull, who were absolutely destined for relegation) and losers, but I've yet to hear a good solution; so I'll take one that's good for my team.

 

[mao tse tung]

Equally, Barnsley have zero power to dictate what division they are in though. What are they going to do; turn up to Oakwell and wait for a championship team that will never arrive, while their league one opponents have a kick around at their empty home ground?

My point really is that the kind of action Barnsley are talking about is one that could take months and years to resolve. Barnsley are time limited; the EFL is not. If you haven't got that amount of time (and Barnsley haven't) before the outcome becomes irrelevant then you surely aren't holding a winning hand?

I agree there is no precedent for PPG, but that is why we are in unprecedented territory and why it will go to a majority vote. Although if you believe Alan Nixon the majority of the championship are determined to play anyway.

My one prediction in all of this is that Derby at least will get off scot free; possibly by ignoring the most nefarious of their practices and clearing them only on the more ambitious ground related matters.

Its not about power; its about standing up to a potential flagrant injustice.

Barnsley only have to show that they are victims of arbitrary decision making; the threat of Court action may stop that decision making dead in its tracks, alternatively, if the EFL decide to proceed, Barnsley could fast track Court action through to CAS or failing that, take out an injunction to prevent next season from starting until a definitive decision has been made.

Chien Lee's wealth may not have an immediate impact on the Clubs fortunes on the pitch but it certainly would in the Court room.

 

[mao tse tung]

I don't disagree with the first point. But unfortunately, the offending teams, especially Derby, are a lot better at cheating than the EFL are at noticing. Derby will get off; their exec being on the EFL board is a blatent conflict of interest but will see them miraculously cleared. The fact that Derby have been cheating and the EFL more or less waved them through having not noticed will be decisive.

Second point I disagree with. I have seen several barking mad solutions to ending the season, one of which sees 17th place Sheffield Wednesday promoted in third. PPG (my preference is for weighted rather than unweighted) is about the worst solution; except for all the others. In our division at least (because everyone has more or less played the same number of games) it more or less leaves the placings where they are.

There are winners of course (ourselves, who I think may well have collapsed and dropped out of the playoffs; Hull, who were absolutely destined for relegation) and losers, but I've yet to hear a good solution; so I'll take one that's good for my team.

We are in unprecidented times; that should not be an excuse for stupidity to prevail.

If a game is not completed it is voided; the same should apply to the League

 

[Pope John XXIII]

Its not about power; its about standing up to a potential flagrant injustice.

Barnsley only have to show that they are victims of arbitrary decision making; the threat of Court action may stop that decision making dead in its tracks, alternatively, if the EFL decide to proceed, Barnsley could fast track Court action through to CAS or failing that, take out an injunction to prevent next season from starting until a definitive decision has been made.

Chien Lee's wealth may not have an immediate impact on the Clubs fortunes on the pitch but it certainly would in the Court room.

I cannot imagine in any circumstance an injunction to prevent the SBC season starting, given the implications that has for hundreds of players and thousands of fans.

The precedent that would set for future speculative action against relegation on the basis of any old thing would be devastating.

Legal process or not, no court is going to allow that.

You probably know more about CAS than me, but I have yet to experience CAS and 'fast track' in the same sentence.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the morals, simply the practicality. I think Barnsley would be half way through a League 1 season at best before they even got to third base on this, and the idea of them refusing to play in league one is dead on arrival. There will be 24 teams in the championship next season and Barnsley won't be one of them no matte show many smart lawyers they have, imo.

 

[mao tse tung]

I cannot imagine in any circumstance an injunction to prevent the SBC season starting, given the implications that has for hundreds of players and thousands of fans.

The precedent that would set for future speculative action against relegation on the basis of any old thing would be devastating.

Legal process or not, no court is going to allow that.

You probably know more about CAS than me, but I have yet to experience CAS and 'fast track' in the same sentence.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the morals, simply the practicality. I think Barnsley would be half way through a League 1 season at best before they even got to third base on this, and the idea of them refusing to play in league one is dead on arrival. There will be 24 teams in the championship next season and Barnsley won't be one of them no matte show many smart lawyers they have, imo.

There are always mechanisms in place for fast tracking legal action for the super rich.

But would it come to that?

We are assuming that Barnsley will be on their own going down the legal route and I do not think that will be the case.

Mel must have serious concerns or he would not have floated the idea of a PL2

 

[Polly 433]

In some ways you are both correct. The EFL has a history of least restriction. In this case hitting the likes of Derby hard would have put them in to court. Probably multiple times with multiple millionaires. They do not want to go down that route. Barnsley have now openly insisted that if they chose not to penalise cheats they will still end up in court. Very expensive. Others could join the venture. Forest being one, who took the penalty on the chin at some cost to the club and very nearly paying the ultimate. They have been putting off a ruling hoping they can penalise guilty teams without hitting them so hard it means relegation with all the complications that entails. Thus those millionaires will accept punishment knowing they got away with it and not take EFL to court. Past misdemeanours would suggest 10-15 points deduction for each of the guilty parties, putting all three in relegation fight. Barnsley are serving notice that the line of least resistance traditionally used will not work this time. I am sure teams like Leeds, Forest and QPR will be quietly reminding EFL of this fact. Boro have gone very quiet lately. Am sure Gibson can turn the screw a bit more.