football civil war | Page 2 | Vital Football

football civil war

Polly 433 said:
I have watched a fair bit of champions league and various european league football via tv this season. Some is good but often is woeful. Large periods of games non descriptive. Often stadiums are half empty. Bit of a turn off. Just throw Man City out and let them play with themselves. They can take their ball home. We have another.
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this.
 
BlackGold said:
In the not-too-distant future, an americanised version of the sport, namely a closed league where franchises are bought and sold for billions will come to pass.

Whilst the notion of franchised soccer clubs will be a hard sell, an homogenised set of competitors will emerge: all with roughly the same sizes of stadium, all based around the major european cities and all owned by a nation state.

They will create parity at that point (much like the yank sports) via first-draft picks, budget trading, max spending etc etc, but the ladder would have been pulled-up and the other 150/200 teams spread across Europe left to compete in the minor Euro comps...for scraps.

As said earlier, if we and other middling clubs wish to enjoy the fruits of the top English table, we must accept the indiscretions of the Stately Six.

Maybe some would be happy competing in a "sort of, but not quite" EPL where the matches are more closely contested.
Excitement at a Championship+ would be quaint, spread of "talent" more equitable...but after seeing what we have seen over the last couple of seasons, the footie will be an eyesore.
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I think this is right and shows what we are fighting against and why.

be interesting to see how many fans support this vision.

the fight to be had is over who owns football. rich nation states or fans.

a wise man once said football is nothing without the fans. that might get tested sooner than we think.
 
radfordinlondon said:
a wise man once said football is nothing without the fans. that might get tested sooner than we think.
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And that wise man was correct IMO. We had a sneak look at fanless football during lockdown & whil we were thankful to be seeing any football at all there is no doubt the spectacle & everything around it was devalued, and I really can't see broadcasters falling over themselves to pay big money for a product like that. Football definitely needs the fiercely partisan fans & not the corporate lot to complete the spectacle that broadcasters want
 
seasider red said:
And that wise man was correct IMO. We had a sneak look at fanless football during lockdown & whil we were thankful to be seeing any football at all there is no doubt the spectacle & everything around it was devalued, and I really can't see broadcasters falling over themselves to pay big money for a product like that. Football definitely needs the fiercely partisan fans & not the corporate lot to complete the spectacle that broadcasters want
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Worry not, the Fat Six will sell their seats for £200 a pop (mimicking the american brands) to their "hardcore" supporter base...of Chinese, American and Korean fanatics.

All of whom cheer when they should - usually its when "charge" is flashed up on the jumbo-center-tron - wave their flags, hotdogs and foam fingers; and gee up the lads with a hearty rendition of Blue Moon (trademarked at that point).

FYI, no probs with the overseas fans; some of our homegrown tourists are a right bunch of pricks on a matchday.
The chinese, korean and US lot are, in the main, a right good and knowledgeable bunch of lads and lasses.

Less said about the cheese munching surrender monkeys the better, mind.
 
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radfordinlondon said:
maybe it's time we stopped caring about being a global brand and enjoyed our football?

not necessarily against NFL model but how do you squeeze promotion and relegation into that?
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Pick the good parts:
1. Max nr. of players in squad
2. Salary cap (player)
3. Salary cap (squad)
4. Revenue sharing between teams
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Keep the league structure, with promotions and relegations.
 
44two said:
Pick the good parts:
1. Max nr. of players in squad
2. Salary cap (player)
3. Salary cap (squad)
4. Revenue sharing between teams
-
Keep the league structure, with promotions and relegations.
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The EPL could no-longer claim to be the "best league in the football" with anti-capitalistic measures such as the above.
 
44two said:
Pick the good parts:
1. Max nr. of players in squad
2. Salary cap (player)
3. Salary cap (squad)
4. Revenue sharing between teams
-
Keep the league structure, with promotions and relegations.
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All ready have max number In squad.

Salary cap, players union will take to court

Squad salary cap is possible and will by default even teams out.

TV money shared out rather than such a big advantage for success. Ore money to dribble down.
 
44two said:
Pick the good parts:
1. Max nr. of players in squad
2. Salary cap (player)
3. Salary cap (squad)
4. Revenue sharing between teams
-
Keep the league structure, with promotions and relegations.
Click to expand...

wow. fook me you could be onto something here. Plenty to like in principle.

makes a lot of sense if you are not a greedy fooking oligarch.

ah I may have found a problem with putting the above into practice.
 
I started watching Forest back in the days of Wally Ardron, when the ground was full they closed the gates and that was that. And it appeared to be simple, I always thought that the owners would be happy enough.
Since the Reds have been in the PL I started off full of enthusiasm but since then my pleasure has waned to the extent that I check the scores and that's all.
And I'm starting to resent it.
 
radfordinlondon said:
you and seaside have got to the meat imo

it's a bit of a paradox. I also have nothing against foreign fans- I love the fact people choose forest. At the same time, I agree that the fiercely partisan fans are a big part of what makes football great.
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I am definitely two things - (1) a foreign fan and (2) a dedicated, fiercely, crazy fan. And for 35 years.
 
BlackGold said:
The EPL could no-longer claim to be the "best league in the football" with anti-capitalistic measures such as the above.
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not sure that our claim isn't based entirely just on money spent. we aren't world champs or even euro champs and we didn't win the champions league.

most watched perhaps but best is a slippery concept.
 
Old Red Fart said:
I started watching Forest back in the days of Wally Ardron, when the ground was full they closed the gates and that was that. And it appeared to be simple, I always thought that the owners would be happy enough.
Since the Reds have been in the PL I started off full of enthusiasm but since then my pleasure has waned to the extent that I check the scores and that's all.
And I'm starting to resent it.
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Unless you are one of the ‘big hitters’ it’s a crap league to be part of even though everyone will tell you ‘it’s the place to be’. For entertainment, give me the Championship any day…
 
radfordinlondon said:
not sure that our claim isn't based entirely just on money spent. we aren't world champs or even euro champs and we didn't win the champions league.

most watched perhaps but best is a slippery concept.
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Absolutely agree. Its just marketing spin and hype.

Personally, though, IMO, its the most entertaining:

Germany - farmers league, awesome stadiums and fans
Spain - technically brilliant, but the racism is something else
Italy - slow, shit, boring, sub-standard players
France - like a mini spain, without as much blatent racism
 
BlackGold said:
Absolutely agree. Its just marketing spin and hype.

Personally, though, IMO, its the most entertaining:

Germany - farmers league, awesome stadiums and fans
Spain - technically brilliant, but the racism is something else
Italy - slow, shit, boring, sub-standard players
France - like a mini spain, without as much blatent racism
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One of the arguments has always been that our league is the most exciting. For relegation scraps it can be but how often has the destination of the title been a mystery going in to the last half a dozen games? And how often are more than two teams involved?

It’s become little more than a procession and no matter how much $ky try to big it up the race for 4th or Europe is not something to get excited about unless you are in it.

And when was the last time someone other than the usual suspects won a cup? Or were even in a final?

For me greed and self-interest have ruined the competition in this country.
 
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