football civil war

[radfordinlondon]

chaps, this is a fooking big deal and needs a Fred by itself.

as I am too lazy to sketch out the debate, let's let those clever newspaper chaps do it;

Manchester City’s legal case has power to blow Premier League’s house down | Paul MacInnes

Champions’ claims threaten the collectivism that has been central to the league’s success over three decades

www.theguardian.com

These absolute piss takers are gonna kill football if we are not careful. we will look like the Scottish or Spanish or Greek leagues where the same team wins every year.

the cheek of these pricks is just jaw dropping. after cheating for ten years they won't be happy until they have taken everything and left nothing.

the obvious and not at all thinly veiled blackmail about spending in the community and on the women's team is despicable and makes them scum.

someone needs to do something...

 

[seasider red]

Agree completely they clearly know that they have cheated all this time, so the best form of defence is to try to get the rules changed to make what they have done legitimate. It's like the powers that be trying to cut the crime rate by making burglary, robbery etc legal.
I just can't get my head around the arrogance & nerve that they are displaying by stamping their feet and wanting everything done their way & to hell with everyone else.
You can also bet that when this case fails they will appeal & keep appealing just to delay the hearing of the 115 cases which seems to have been their tactic all along.
When the cases are eventually heard they need to have the heaviest possible punishment, they should be stripped of all the honours they have "won" & sent as far down the pyramid as possible

 

[BlackGold]

No chance of relegation or points penalties for Man City.

Worst thing, a large fine - say £50m - and a slight alteration to the rules around sponsorship.

At the end of the day, English football needs the likes of City competing in their top-tier.
If they were to leave for a Euro Super League, you can guarantee that the money will soon follow them, and their ilk.

Way of the world, unfortunately.

 

[radfordinlondon]

No chance of relegation or points penalties for Man City.

Worst thing, a large fine - say £50m - and a slight alteration to the rules around sponsorship.

At the end of the day, English football needs the likes of City competing in their top-tier.
If they were to leave for a Euro Super League, you can guarantee that the money will soon follow them, and their ilk.

Way of the world, unfortunately.

I hope football isn't as spineless as you are.

 

[radfordinlondon]

maybe you could apply to be French.

I hear they are very welcoming to cheese eating surrender monkies...

 

[Polly 433]

No chance of relegation or points penalties for Man City.

Worst thing, a large fine - say £50m - and a slight alteration to the rules around sponsorship.

At the end of the day, English football needs the likes of City competing in their top-tier.
If they were to leave for a Euro Super League, you can guarantee that the money will soon follow them, and their ilk.

Way of the world, unfortunately.

Worst thing is the PL paying Man City £50m for being cheats. That could be the outcome. Just ban them. Refuse to play them. Obvious cheating.

 

[Apollyon]

Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

The F.A and EPL let states buy football clubs and compete in their leagues and of course pass their rigorous fit and proper tests, then expect them not to exploit loop holes.

The only way to reel this back in, in my opinion, is to level the playing field with a system like the NFL, where everyone has the same budget.

As Blackgold says, for the global brand, Man City are needed. A fan in the U.S or Thailand isn't going to give a monkeys about net spend.

 

[BlackGold]

maybe you could apply to be French.

I hear they are very welcoming to cheese eating surrender monkies...

No one ever says Italy.

 

[Pope John XXIII]

The whole thing with this and PSR is a double edged sword really.

On the one hand, I resent these charges and the rules in general because they are designed to prevent clubs like us with rich owners from rising up the ranks. They freeze a top six of super rich clubs in place, more or less forever and create a glass ceiling so that, were our club to win the lottery and be taken over by a state, we would never be able to gatecrash the top as Man City have done.

I also love how apopleptic it has made absolutely vile fanbase like Liverpool.

But on the other hand, if what Man City have done were allowed to be open to all, you would eventually have a cabal of 7-10 clubs, all state owned and impregnable. It wouldn't be long before they started to see no benefit in playing Nottingham Forest and Crystal Palace

 

[radfordinlondon]

Closing the gate after the horse has bolted.

The F.A and EPL let states buy football clubs and compete in their leagues and of course pass their rigorous fit and proper tests, then expect them not to exploit loop holes.

The only way to reel this back in, in my opinion, is to level the playing field with a system like the NFL, where everyone has the same budget.

As Blackgold says, for the global brand, Man City are needed. A fan in the U.S or Thailand isn't going to give a monkeys about net spend.

maybe it's time we stopped caring about being a global brand and enjoyed our football?

not necessarily against NFL model but how do you squeeze promotion and relegation into that?

 

[radfordinlondon]

No one ever says Italy.

they don't eat as much cheese...

 

[BlackGold]

The whole thing with this and PSR is a double edged sword really.

On the one hand, I resent these charges and the rules in general because they are designed to prevent clubs like us with rich owners from rising up the ranks. They freeze a top six of super rich clubs in place, more or less forever and create a glass ceiling so that, were our club to win the lottery and be taken over by a state, we would never be able to gatecrash the top as Man City have done.

I also love how apopleptic it has made absolutely vile fanbase like Liverpool.

But on the other hand, if what Man City have done were allowed to be open to all, you would eventually have a cabal of 7-10 clubs, all state owned and impregnable. It wouldn't be long before they started to see no benefit in playing Nottingham Forest and Crystal Palace

In the not-too-distant future, an americanised version of the sport, namely a closed league where franchises are bought and sold for billions will come to pass.

Whilst the notion of franchised soccer clubs will be a hard sell, an homogenised set of competitors will emerge: all with roughly the same sizes of stadium, all based around the major european cities and all owned by a nation state.

They will create parity at that point (much like the yank sports) via first-draft picks, budget trading, max spending etc etc, but the ladder would have been pulled-up and the other 150/200 teams spread across Europe left to compete in the minor Euro comps...for scraps.

As said earlier, if we and other middling clubs wish to enjoy the fruits of the top English table, we must accept the indiscretions of the Stately Six.

Maybe some would be happy competing in a "sort of, but not quite" EPL where the matches are more closely contested.
Excitement at a Championship+ would be quaint, spread of "talent" more equitable...but after seeing what we have seen over the last couple of seasons, the footie will be an eyesore.

 

[BlackGold]

maybe it's time we stopped caring about being a global brand and enjoyed our football?

not necessarily against NFL model but how do you squeeze promotion and relegation into that?

You can't really, chum, thats the whole point of the NFL/NBA/NHL system.

Its fair and equitable, if you happen to be one of the major franchises...not a minor league Isotope.

I may be misremembering, but, IIRC, one of the rules of owing a franchise in the NFL is that you must have access to an all-seater stadium with a minimum 50k capacity.

 

[seasider red]

maybe it's time we stopped caring about being a global brand and enjoyed our football?

not necessarily against NFL model but how do you squeeze promotion and relegation into that?

That’s why I wasn’t too dismayed at the prospect of returning to the championship where the football is the prime focus. Sad situation really when if you have aspirations to go higher then you have to accept that it is just a circus aimed at generating as much money as possible for some of the participants to laud it over the rest & to hell with the football

 

[the jock]

i remember a time where my heart would be thumping out of my chest in anticipation of a major tournament that england were involved in. similar for FA cup matches.

the game is so far removed now. don't even really care anymore.

 

[Polly 433]

I have watched a fair bit of champions league and various european league football via tv this season. Some is good but often is woeful. Large periods of games non descriptive. Often stadiums are half empty. Bit of a turn off. Just throw Man City out and let them play with themselves. They can take their ball home. We have another.

 

[Basha73]

In the not-too-distant future, an americanised version of the sport, namely a closed league where franchises are bought and sold for billions will come to pass.

Whilst the notion of franchised soccer clubs will be a hard sell, an homogenised set of competitors will emerge: all with roughly the same sizes of stadium, all based around the major european cities and all owned by a nation state.

They will create parity at that point (much like the yank sports) via first-draft picks, budget trading, max spending etc etc, but the ladder would have been pulled-up and the other 150/200 teams spread across Europe left to compete in the minor Euro comps...for scraps.

As said earlier, if we and other middling clubs wish to enjoy the fruits of the top English table, we must accept the indiscretions of the Stately Six.

Maybe some would be happy competing in a "sort of, but not quite" EPL where the matches are more closely contested.
Excitement at a Championship+ would be quaint, spread of "talent" more equitable...but after seeing what we have seen over the last couple of seasons, the footie will be an eyesore.

If this were to happen I would rather be in the Championship.

 

[Geedo61]

Mixed opinions on this one.

Of course - Man City are behaving like spoilt brats and in the ideal world you would just kick them out.
But what would that mean? The EPL & Masters are dancing to the tune of Liverpool & Man Utd who both have a vendetta against City because it has had a direct effect on them. These ATP rules were put in place as the behest of Utd & the Scousers.

What is best for Forest?
EPL WIN - Keep the rules as they are - no change, we are kept in our place by the EPL & Top 6 (including City) - which means we have to increase revenue and probably move to a new ground and still struggle to be mid-table side

CITY WIN - Rules change in that Associated Third Parties can put in as much money as they like. Of course we will never compete with City & Newcastle - but we never will anyway. We may however not necessarily have to move. We can make the WFCG as good as it can be (say 40k capacity) - maintain our history and traditions and still end up a mid-table side.

An interesting conundrum

 

[BlackGold]

I have watched a fair bit of champions league and various european league football via tv this season. Some is good but often is woeful. Large periods of games non descriptive. Often stadiums are half empty. Bit of a turn off. Just throw Man City out and let them play with themselves. They can take their ball home. We have another.

But thats the thing, if Man City were jettisoned, they'll take the other five with them...where would that leave the pyramid, then?

 

[BlackGold]

Mixed opinions on this one.

Of course - Man City are behaving like spoilt brats and in the ideal world you would just kick them out.
But what would that mean? The EPL & Masters are dancing to the tune of Liverpool & Man Utd who both have a vendetta against City because it has had a direct effect on them. These ATP rules were put in place as the behest of Utd & the Scousers.

What is best for Forest?
EPL WIN - Keep the rules as they are - no change, we are kept in our place by the EPL & Top 6 (including City) - which means we have to increase revenue and probably move to a new ground and still struggle to be mid-table side

CITY WIN - Rules change in that Associated Third Parties can put in as much money as they like. Of course we will never compete with City & Newcastle - but we never will anyway. We may however not necessarily have to move. We can make the WFCG as good as it can be (say 40k capacity) - maintain our history and traditions and still end up a mid-table side.

An interesting conundrum

It has to be a CITY WIN!