Flag in the Corner

[Sturdy Gill]

FREEDOM!!!!

Actually that is a bit "tongue in cheek" lads, my being a Sassenach and all that however, I will say this, the attitude towards London and Parliament is most definitely getting harder and bumbling Boris is only making it easier for those who either chose not to vote or for those who voted no, to have a rethink. I'm not so confident that the majority would vote to remain if they do manage to get a second referendum organised. Whatever happens, I would remain here as long as I can still get a visitors visa for my visits to Priestfield.

But the Scots have their own Parliament / Assembly as do the Welsh to make their own decisions (just look at COVID as an example), I understand that Westminster rules apply for all Nations but the Scots and the Welsh also have their MPs in Westminster

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

You're absolutely correct - we do have a government, of sorts, here. However, even though it does have some local powers, big brother in London is always keeping a close eye on things, ready to quell anything that it deems as being detrimental for the greater good. I realise that the situation is nowhere near as bad as the situation between Hong Kong and China but it is not entirely dissimilar. If Scotland and/or Wales were to choose their own path basically (and in principle) they could tell the English parliament to stick their rule and regulations where "the sun don't shine". Could be they just shrug their shoulders and say "ok, we've emptied the North Sea of all its riches but don't expect us to bail you out if things go tits up" or alternatively, they may impose some sort of martial law - although it would never be called that - to keep things nice and tidy. Whatever eventually happens, in my estimation, there will be no winners, only losers.

 

[Jerryattrick]

I've never understood this. The Brexit referendum was a UK wide vote and the UK as a whole voted to leave. It was an all or nothing vote and was never designed for the results to be analysed and broken down into country by country, region by region or come to that parish by parish. The SNP have cherry picked the result to support their case and I'm always surprised they've been allowed to get away with it. IMO, a lot of Scots voted to stay in the EU but Scotland did not, because that was never an option.

Exactly.
So every constituency that voted remain would also be able to succeed at some point lol. It was an individual count and not an area count so as you say - impaired logic.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

The Scots did vote to stay in the EU as it happens and it was proven however, the will of the individual countries was never going to be taken into consideration because the bulk of the votes were cast in England. I happen to think that if Scotland were to gain their independence then it is entirely possible they would never be allowed to join the EU, which might just be a good thing. At present, big brother in Westminster is basically the one holding the trumps and dialogue between the nations is basically still amicable. If Scotland succeeded in getting accepted a member of the EU, instead of having one big brother, there would be 26 of the buggers and then the Scots would have even less say in what they could or could not do in their own land.

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't!

 

[ffsgills]

The Scots did vote to stay in the EU as it happens and it was proven however, the will of the individual countries was never going to be taken into consideration because the bulk of the votes were cast in England.

But Alex, with all due respect, it was never about the will of individual countries. It was one man one vote and the final decision was based purely on total yes or no votes. So whether it can be proven that the Scots voted to stay in is irrelevant. You only had to be registered to vote to be able to participate. Therefore it follows that even non Scots could have voted in Scotland, making any breakdown of data by nation unsound.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

That is very true FFS but when you only have approx. 5.5 million inhabitants (and clearly up to 20% will not be eligible to vote) but you have box against a land with approx. 56 million (also with non-voters) there isn't a chance in hell that the hope or aspirations of the smaller partner will be listened to. Whether it's relevant or not, the Scottish people voted "en masse" against the idea and that will not be forgotten (or more likely forgiven).

I agree with you that non Scots could have voted in Scotland, making any breakdown of data by nation unsound, but surely that could also be said of voters in England? The one (wo)man, one vote worked well for England where people like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage were going around the big cities in their busses peddling their wares. In Scotland the topography makes that more difficult, Clearly we are a smaller, more rural country and do not have as many big cities as down south. Just getting the message across was an undertaking in itself.

By the by, I do have to admit that most of the fishing ports were vehemently against remaining in the EU. I can understand that but their numbers were fairly small compared to the remainers. I would also like to add that the dust has not yet settled regarding whether we did the right thing by leaving. There have already been a couple of shots across the bow and we are not even 10 weeks into being non EU. Personally I think there are also going to be countries trying to get their revenge for things we have done in the past. Clearly I hope it works for the UK, we all have a vested interest in it now. I'm still not confident it will.

 

[shotshy]

Surely you can’t mean Eu countries looking for revenge of things we’ve done in the past ?
Unless you mean helping to liberate most of Europe from the Nazis and then massively subsidising many Eu countries for forty years?
I can understand if they are upset because they have lost their ATM but then, Scotland will be in the same position if they vote to leave the union.
Financially, England will be quids in.

 

[jokerman]

Something like one third of SNP voters backed leaving the EU in the referendum. Old lefties and Celtic romantics, I assume, but it messes up the pitch that all right thinking people line up on what the great and good regard as the right side of all arguments. People are damned untidy.

 

[valenciagill]

Something like one third of SNP voters backed leaving the EU in the referendum. Old lefties and Celtic romantics, I assume, but it messes up the pitch that all right thinking people line up on what the great and good regard as the right side of all arguments. People are damned untidy.

Interesting stats , is Scottish nationalism a good thing ? Or is it a bad thing like English nationalism ?

 

[markinkent]

Interesting stats , is Scottish nationalism a good thing ? Or is it a bad thing like English nationalism ?

It's an interesting point VG. Rightly or wrongly English nationalism brings up an image of far right bone heads, waving the flag whilst beating up jonny foreigners rather than Morris dancers and cricket on the village green.

Unfortunately for those who believe in English nationalism until they get rid of that far right association it will not be welcomed by many in my view.

I don't think farage gurning whilst signing rule Brittania helps the cause either. Despite him trying to be the face of England no constituency has ever made him MP despite all his air time in the media.

Maybe next time.

PS for clarity I cant stand farage.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

Surely you can’t mean Eu countries looking for revenge of things we’ve done in the past ?
Unless you mean helping to liberate most of Europe from the Nazis and then massively subsidising many Eu countries for forty years?

And there you have the crux of the matter - memories are selective and I am sure that, in spite of all we have done to aid Europe in the past, any positive actions will disappear like snow in the sun. The fact is that the UK have basically turned round and told the EU to "go forth and multiply" and that will be held against us ad infinitum.

For the EU it is a question of honour although I am pretty damned sure that when it comes down to it, the EU will never act in an honourable way towards us. In truth, they have us by the short and curlies, will never let us forget that fact and if it comes down to it will flex their muscles to prove a point. I offer the travel delays just before and after Christmas as evidence M'lud.

 

[shotshy]

And there you have the crux of the matter - memories are selective and I am sure that, in spite of all we have done to aid Europe in the past, any positive actions will disappear like snow in the sun. The fact is that the UK have basically turned round and told the EU to "go forth and multiply" and that will be held against us ad infinitum.

For the EU it is a question of honour although I am pretty damned sure that when it comes down to it, the EU will never act in an honourable way towards us. In truth, they have us by the short and curlies, will never let us forget that fact and if it comes down to it will flex their muscles to prove a point. I offer the travel delays just before and after Christmas as evidence M'lud.

I agree with all that AF.
They haven’t taken rejection very well.
Verhofstadt and Lambert are still doing anti U.K. interviews on a regular basis even though we’ve officially gone.
I did a count on Politico EU just last week and four of the top ten stories where about the U.K., a non member.
Like any divorce, it will take a while to settle down.
The negativity certainly isn’t only on the U.K. side.
There is an article in today’s Guardian explaining how the Eu is actually doing better than the U.K. in the covid vaccine rollout.
I did read it and it was total bollax but an interesting examination of the attitude of some.
As Jacque Chriac once said, it’s only after the cattle fair is over and we count the cow poo.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

I agree with all that AF.
They haven’t taken rejection very well.
Verhofstadt and Lambert are still doing anti U.K. interviews on a regular basis even though we’ve officially gone.
I did a count on Politico EU just last week and four of the top ten stories where about the U.K., a non member.
Like any divorce, it will take a while to settle down.
The negativity certainly isn’t only on the U.K. side.
There is an article in today’s Guardian explaining how the Eu is actually doing better than the U.K. in the covid vaccine rollout.
I did read it and it was total bollax but an interesting examination of the attitude of some.
As Jacque Chriac once said, it’s only after the cattle fair is over and we count the cow poo.

The bloated egos of a few top Europeans has surely contributed the bad feelings between the two entities. Unfortunately we too have a couple of, lets say ego trippers who are using it to bolster their own public image. In other words it is simply a question of who has the biggest dick. Seems to me that they have all acted like dicks and we (as a land) have been left with the tab.

 

[shotshy]

The European Parliament are currently debating acceptance of the Trade Agreement and are considering putting in a caveat that Scotland should remain in the Erasmus program.

A bit divisive in my opinion but given that education is devolved in Scotland, I guess it may be up to them, should they wish to financially contribute.

The reason that the UK pulled out of Erasmus was because of the potential cost.

The EU insisted that the UK contribution had to be linked to GDP, that is, the better that the UK economy did, the more we would pay. That could mean the UK paying a disproportionate amount.

This government is setting up an alternative called the Alan Turing program, including all world universities, not just European one's.

 

[alex_farrells_left_peg]

Divide and conquer comes to mind Shotshy!

I would like to add that in pennies, the UK is surely one of the largest contributors however, proportionally speaking, the Dutch are the highest and believe me, that doesn't sit well. They have elections coming up next month and you can bet your house on the "Nexit" being high on the agenda of all the rightwing and splinter parties over there.

How they ever expect to get a working government out of it is another question as I read somewhere that there are 41 different parties eligible to take part and their voting system is completely different to ours. It is not constituency based but nationwide....which in our terms means that someone in Dorset could vote for a candidate based in the Shetland or someone in Gillingham able to vote for a candidate in Swindon (hehe). Being a democracy is not as easy as it once was apparently.

 

[Vambogills]

Matt Hancock often doesn't show the flag in his little red library room. However on his right he has a photo of The Cock Inn, Thurlow hanging on the wall. The pub was owned by his chum Alex Bourne, who won a £30m Covid19 contract for test tube work. His firm had only recently gained a safety certificate for testing.
Might be a coincidence of course.

 

[Gills 58]

Lol. Shotshy still going on and on about the EU, putting the most negative spin on anything and everything. Leave won. It's as if he was desperately trying to prove he was right, whatever "right" is.

To think that Leavers were telling Remainers to accept the result and move on.

I'm just delighted that our fish are so happy with the result.

 

[shotshy]

Lol. Shotshy still going on and on about the EU, putting the most negative spin on anything and everything. Leave won. It's as if he was desperately trying to prove he was right, whatever "right" is.

To think that Leavers were telling Remainers to accept the result and move on.

I'm just delighted that our fish are so happy with the result.

I suppose my point about them still being obsessed with us is quite ironic
I do continue to read a lot about all sorts of things.
I continue to read a few European papers daily.
We’ve left the Eu, not Europe, but then you’d know that being a teacher and all that

We’ve gone from flag in the corner to Scottish independence to Erasmus for Scotland to........ fish

 

[Gills 58]

I suppose my point about them still being obsessed with us is quite ironic
I do continue to read a lot about all sorts of things.
I continue to read a few European papers daily.
We’ve left the Eu, not Europe, but then you’d know that being a teacher and all that

We’ve gone from flag in the corner to Scottish independence to Erasmus for Scotland to........ fish

In other words, my comment was pretty accurate.

 

[jokerman]

I agree with all that AF.
They haven’t taken rejection very well.
Verhofstadt and Lambert are still doing anti U.K. interviews on a regular basis even though we’ve officially gone.
I did a count on Politico EU just last week and four of the top ten stories where about the U.K., a non member.
Like any divorce, it will take a while to settle down.
The negativity certainly isn’t only on the U.K. side.
There is an article in today’s Guardian explaining how the Eu is actually doing better than the U.K. in the covid vaccine rollout.
I did read it and it was total bollax but an interesting examination of the attitude of some.
As Jacque Chriac once said, it’s only after the cattle fair is over and we count the cow poo.

I read that. The argument ran something like this.

We held off until we knew it was safe and we could get a good price and we figured out how to distribute it fairly by member nation. If that meant hardly anyone got any, then so be it. Some things are more important. Plus we're winning anyway if you count only double shots and only the French. Not that it's a competition, but...

Meanwhile Guy Verwhatnot is blowing a fuse. 75 percent of the stuff is made in the EU and the EU aren't getting it. He blames the German lady.