Fatigue ? | Vital Football

Fatigue ?

cherryexile

Vital 1st Team Regular
With lots of talk about 'running on empty' and 'injuries' and the implied fear of not being able to maintain our form for the second half of the season, it reminded me of the controversy from earlier in the season when Karen Carney said this about Leeds United,

"They out-run everyone and credit to them. My only concern would be will they blow up at the end of the season?

"We saw that the last couple of seasons. I actually think they got promoted because of Covid in terms of it gave them a bit of respite. I don't know if they would have got up if they didn't have that break."


MA clearly made the players put a lot into pre-season, has expected them to run hard in games and we have all seen the rewards that this has brought.

Do Ms Carney's comments have any relevance on our position?
 
Last edited:
I think mental energy is just as important.
Keep telling people they are tired, things can go wrong etc etc is almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

How about wondering whether Swindon will be tired after travelling up to Lincoln following chasing the ball round all afternoon. They had 32% possession against Crewe.

Positive thinking is the way ahead.
 
I think mental energy is just as important.
Keep telling people they are tired, things can go wrong etc etc is almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

How about wondering whether Swindon will be tired after travelling up to Lincoln following chasing the ball round all afternoon. They had 32% possession against Crewe.

Positive thinking is the way ahead.
Yep, DC was the master of that in 2016/17 and in the final 10 games or so, he kept being asked about tiredness and niggling injuries and his reply more often than not was, "we're trained to play 60/61 games a season" and it rubbed off on the players.

Waterfall and Wood did interview after a home win where we looked shattered (Bromley maybe) but both mirrored DC's thoughts.

I think the 3 games in 6 games rather than 7 will have had an impact as well. An extra 24 hours doesn't sound a lot but in the earlier stages of recovery it is, especially with having to travel as well.
 
I think mental energy is just as important.
Keep telling people they are tired, things can go wrong etc etc is almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

How about wondering whether Swindon will be tired after travelling up to Lincoln following chasing the ball round all afternoon. They had 32% possession against Crewe.

Positive thinking is the way ahead.

Can you add this as well to the 82/83 comparison thread? ;)
 
I think the 3 games in 6 games rather than 7 will have had an impact as well. An extra 24 hours doesn't sound a lot but in the earlier stages of recovery it is, especially with having to travel as well.

I have listened to both MA and Hortin talk about how many games are played over a period and I would just like to point out to everyone that there are 7 days in a week and that you shouldn't count games twice (i.e. at the end of the previous week and at the beginning of the subsequent week, otherwise the statements don't make sense.

Hortin said a couple of times that we have just played 3 games in under 6 days. This is wrong. Everyone should know that Sunday to Saturday is 7 days. MA also said next week is a 3 game week, which it isn't, since Saturday to Saturday is 8 days and not a week. Saturday to Friday is a week and that covers 2 games. Also, no one pointed out that the week before was technically a one game week (depending on where you class the week starting); from Sunday to Saturday we only played on the Tuesday.

Just to drum home the point, if you class Saturday to Saturday, having played on Tuesday too, as a 3 game week and then do the same for the following week, then you have 2 x 3 = 6 games in 15 days. Whereas, if you say between Saturday and Friday for the next two weeks we play on Saturday and Tuesday, we have 4 games and if you want to you can add in another game on the Saturday after that, but then have to make it 5 games in 15 days. Neither are 3 games a week.

Regardless, 8 games in a month is still pushing it, especially on soft pitches, playing 90 minutes and not having the chance to recuperate from niggling knocks and injuries.

I shall demount my high horse and waddle off.
 
I think mental energy is just as important.
Keep telling people they are tired, things can go wrong etc etc is almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

How about wondering whether Swindon will be tired after travelling up to Lincoln following chasing the ball round all afternoon. They had 32% possession against Crewe.

Positive thinking is the way ahead.
No doubt, exactly what MA and the rest will be saying. "This is where all the hard pre-season work will help us. You know you are fitter than the other lot."
 
No doubt, exactly what MA and the rest will be saying. "This is where all the hard pre-season work will help us. You know you are fitter than the other lot."
Thats very similar to what Tom Hopper said in his post match interview on Radio Lincs, impressed with that guy with his hard work for the cause and his goal tally is mounting nicely.
UTI.
 
Bridcutt is a big miss, but we’re finding ways to cover his absence currently. Would be a concern if Grant or Hopper got injured though.
But looking positively if we can keep going we’re going to get a boost from some returning hopefully fresh players for the run in.
 
I have listened to both MA and Hortin talk about how many games are played over a period and I would just like to point out to everyone that there are 7 days in a week and that you shouldn't count games twice (i.e. at the end of the previous week and at the beginning of the subsequent week, otherwise the statements don't make sense.

Hortin said a couple of times that we have just played 3 games in under 6 days. This is wrong. Everyone should know that Sunday to Saturday is 7 days. MA also said next week is a 3 game week, which it isn't, since Saturday to Saturday is 8 days and not a week. Saturday to Friday is a week and that covers 2 games. Also, no one pointed out that the week before was technically a one game week (depending on where you class the week starting); from Sunday to Saturday we only played on the Tuesday.

Just to drum home the point, if you class Saturday to Saturday, having played on Tuesday too, as a 3 game week and then do the same for the following week, then you have 2 x 3 = 6 games in 15 days. Whereas, if you say between Saturday and Friday for the next two weeks we play on Saturday and Tuesday, we have 4 games and if you want to you can add in another game on the Saturday after that, but then have to make it 5 games in 15 days. Neither are 3 games a week.

Regardless, 8 games in a month is still pushing it, especially on soft pitches, playing 90 minutes and not having the chance to recuperate from niggling knocks and injuries.

I shall demount my high horse and waddle off.
Thank you for saying this! This "three games in a week" rhetoric is just not true, which isn't too say that the schedule isn't busy - of course it is. I wonder if it is to encourage a tough, siege mentality to keep the players battling on.
 
Just re 3 game week - an argument might be that re workload it is a 3 game week. I don't know how a week is structured but probably along the lines of:

Sunday = recovery day re match 1
Monday = classroom debrief re match 1 and prep re match 2 / training
Tuesday = match 2
Wednesday = recovery day re match 2
Thursday = debrief re match 2 and training
Friday = prep re match 3 / training
Saturday = match 3

I guess the point is the workload extends beyond the match being played. To say we're playing 3 matches in a week is normally wrong (apart from last week), but for MA to suggest it's a 3 match week this week is probably correct as far as his and the players workload is concerned.
 
Why will our players be any more or less fatigued than any other club. Mentally it is a lot easier to pick yourself up from fatigue physical or mental after a win than a string of defeats.
 
I have listened to both MA and Hortin talk about how many games are played over a period and I would just like to point out to everyone that there are 7 days in a week and that you shouldn't count games twice (i.e. at the end of the previous week and at the beginning of the subsequent week, otherwise the statements don't make sense.

Hortin said a couple of times that we have just played 3 games in under 6 days. This is wrong. Everyone should know that Sunday to Saturday is 7 days. MA also said next week is a 3 game week, which it isn't, since Saturday to Saturday is 8 days and not a week. Saturday to Friday is a week and that covers 2 games. Also, no one pointed out that the week before was technically a one game week (depending on where you class the week starting); from Sunday to Saturday we only played on the Tuesday.

Just to drum home the point, if you class Saturday to Saturday, having played on Tuesday too, as a 3 game week and then do the same for the following week, then you have 2 x 3 = 6 games in 15 days. Whereas, if you say between Saturday and Friday for the next two weeks we play on Saturday and Tuesday, we have 4 games and if you want to you can add in another game on the Saturday after that, but then have to make it 5 games in 15 days. Neither are 3 games a week.

Regardless, 8 games in a month is still pushing it, especially on soft pitches, playing 90 minutes and not having the chance to recuperate from niggling knocks and injuries.

I shall demount my high horse and waddle off.
I would suggest it’s not how many matches have been played in x number of days that’s important, but the number of days rest between games !
 
These are extremely fit young men and tiredness really should not be an issue. It has been estimated that a professional footballer runs about 10k in a game. Lets assume they do something similar in training - it does not amount to too much. I know plenty of amateur runners in their 50s who exceed this. What is an issue though is the impact on joints, muscles etc through the physical nature of the game. That is not fatigue though.
 
These are extremely fit young men and tiredness really should not be an issue. It has been estimated that a professional footballer runs about 10k in a game. Lets assume they do something similar in training - it does not amount to too much. I know plenty of amateur runners in their 50s who exceed this. What is an issue though is the impact on joints, muscles etc through the physical nature of the game. That is not fatigue though.

It's not just the distance. Constantly stopping, starting, turning, accelerating, decelerating, running backwards, sideways, forwards on heavy pitches is going to be a different challenge.
 
These are extremely fit young men and tiredness really should not be an issue. It has been estimated that a professional footballer runs about 10k in a game. Lets assume they do something similar in training - it does not amount to too much. I know plenty of amateur runners in their 50s who exceed this. What is an issue though is the impact on joints, muscles etc through the physical nature of the game. That is not fatigue though.

You are being slightly disingenuous. 90 minutes of intense football packed full of short, sharp bursts is harder than a trot round Richmond Park.
 
It's not just the distance. Constantly stopping, starting, turning, accelerating, decelerating, running backwards, sideways, forwards on heavy pitches is going to be a different challenge.

And getting whacked repeatedly by opponents brings it's own level of wear and tear when many games are played in a short space of time, the soreness and aches never actually go away between games...
 
And getting whacked repeatedly by opponents brings it's own level of wear and tear when many games are played in a short space of time, the soreness and aches never actually go away between games...

I think that is a big factor, fatigue is one thing, but having some 14 stone centre half smashing into your leg or your ribs takes it toll. For every challenge that actually causes an injury there and then on the pitch, I'd say there are 3 or 4 in each game that may hurt at the time but won't really hurt until a few hours later and then will be aching and sore the next day.

Not all games are like that ofcourse, but plenty of them will be especially when playing against those teams at the bottom who will be scrapping to get points at any cost.
 
Tiredness is the usual excuse trotted out by managers and pundits trying to explain a poor performance. All teams get tired towards the end of a 90 minutes game, if you are losing or hanging on for a result the tiredness appears worse, if you are cruising you appear fresh. Brennan Johnson is now always singled out as looking tired, he maybe is but more likely he’s suffering a downturn in form so his confidence is a bit lower than previously so he looks a bit tired.
Another excuse is a small squad opposed to a big squad, another ready made autoquip. Nearly all teams have about 18/20 players capable of playing well at this level. With squads of 30 or so at least 10 will only be picked in exceptional circumstances and are not really up to the job. Look at the appearance stats of clubs with big squads, most appearances are made by a hardcore of 15 about the same as clubs with a 20 man squad.